The Bonds Treatment?

I’ve been waiting for a while for Albert Pujols to start getting the Barry Bonds treatment. At some point, no matter how good the rest of his team may be, I just figured that opponents would get tired of watching Pujols smack line drives around the park. Remember, way back in 2001, when Bonds first set the walk record, it happened despite the fact that there were some other very dangerous hitters in the Giants lineup.

Anyway, it may finally be happening with Pujols. With a man on third, one out and Scott Rolen on deck in a 2-0 game on Tuesday, the Brewers put up four fingers for Pujols and took their chances with Rolen. I suppose it sort of worked, depending on what your goals are. Rolen hit a sac fly to make it 3-0 Cards, but Mark Grudzielanek grounded into a force play (not a fielder’s choice; a force play) to end the inning.

It’s true that Pujols has punished the Brewers even more than other teams this year, and it’s true that the rest of the Cards’ lineup tonight (no Larry Walker, no Jim Edmonds, no Reggie Sanders) is about as unimposing as you’ll see them trot out all year. But it was definitely striking, and I wonder if it will start to happen more often. Bears watching, at least.

-M.

20 Comments

That is a possibility, although I think it is unlikely for Pujols to ever approach Bonds’s walk record. The only record of Bonds that I would really like to see Pujols break is that MVP record. He has another good chance this year, but he could have the Hank Aaron type career that consistently was overlooked because of flash-in-the-pan type seasons by less consistent players. Only time will tell.

I doubt that Pujols will end up with the Bonds treatment. I mean, look at it from the Brewers standpoint, Would you take a Pujols or a Rolen who couldn’t hit anything? If the ‘A’ lineup ever gets out there again it will be buisness as usual.

Matthew-
Is it nessesary for TLR to send out the AA lineup aganist the Cubs? Could he not of given AP the day off before or after the series, or is AP banged up and does he need the day?

With all the talk of the world cup baseball game next year, how many of the players have become American citizens? I know Pujols came to America when he was 12 years old, so I was just curious to know if he has become a naturalized citizen?

Everyone knows Pujols is the best. Write something worth reading next time.
Go Cards!

Mr. Pujols will recieve the Bonds treatment as long as Tony continues to put out a scrub line-up in front of and behind him. Riddle me this: Why is Tony batting Edmonds in the two spot EVER? I know Tony is a baseball genious, but I think he out-thinks himself a lot.Just put in the regulars as long as they are healthy.And put them wehere they can be productive!!If Tony needs some help, tell him to ask for advice from the dude. He lives over by the IN and Out Burger.

The team stop hitting the ball in the playoffs last year and don’t hit the ball like they can know. Albert has not been able to come through all the time. He has come in years past more times than he does know. Edmonds, Roland and Walker had better start hitting if the Cardinals are going to advance in the playoff. By the way Morgan was wrong on ESPN about Stans name. I have allways been told that it came from a Dodger game about someone saying hear comes that Man Again, not from a Cubs fan. Stan has always been my hero ever since 1948, and he allways will be.

FIRE HAL MCRAE!!! I am sick of watching the most potent offense in the National League, if not all of baseball, struggle to score runs. It’s obvious the team is surviving on talent alone and not instruction from the hitting coach. La Russa’s doing his job. Duncan’s doing his job. What’s up with the hitting coach?

M.

Love the venue and the interaction from Cardinals nation (I myself live in Astros country but stay baseball sane thru mlb tv). Maybe it’s just me but the server hosting this blog is painfully slow and I’m at 100mbs…makes it difficult to stay very long. Can we get mlb.com to step up and support this the right way? Anyone else experiencing the same thing?

Albert Pujols is the definition of consistency. Look at his career OPS of 1.035 as of 7/25/05. I agree that Edmonds shouldn’t be in the 2 hole. I know TLR likes to have the power threat in the 2 hole but it’s smarter to have someone in the 2 hole that strikes out much less. I’ve heard rumors of the Cards going after Melvin Mora or Eric Byrnes before the trade deadline. Any thoughts?

I love Edmonds in the two spot, personally. It’s not about the power, it’s about the OBP. To me, the most important thing regarding Pujols is to make sure there are guys to drive in, so I love having a guy like Edmonds, or a healthy Walker, in that spot.

Grudzielanek, for example, is more the historical prototype for a No. 2 hitter — puts the ball in play, doesn’t strike out, a little speed. But I like him much more down in the 6-7 spot, because I think you’re better off having a guy who gets on base in front of Pujols. Besides, Grudzielanek is a perfect fit down in the 6 spot, where he can hit line drive singles and doubles to drive in runs.

Take ‘er easy, and Shaun is right — those are good burgers.

-M, who hopes he’s not out of his element here.

Are you a Cardinal fan or just a writer with nothing to say? Wow! You really blew me away with your insight. You can’ t be a Cardinal fan.

I’m not sure who stripmallp is talking to. I’m not sure stripmallp reads the same language the rest of us do.Take it easy man.As a matter of fact I think this blog is pretty sweet, in the parlence of our times. I still don’t like Edmonds in the two spot though. Since Eckstein is so good at getting on base, it is most important to have a guy in the 2 hole who isn’t going to eliminate the runner on a double-play, or strikeout and not advance him.That’s why I still like a guy like Grud hitting 2nd.And what is Edmonds OPS while batting 2nd.I bet it’s not good.I heard Hrabosky or Buck saying that his batting average out of the two-spot was not much over the Mendoza line. Is that true? Also, I read on the Cards site about the possibility of going after Billy Wagner. Any word on that?

As Yogi Bera once said, “When you come to a fork in the road, take it.” It is my observation that TLR has taken this advice to heart when dealing with Edmonds in the two hole. Fact is, Edmonds, or Walker, may not be the prototypical two-spot hitters, but surprisingly enough, Edmonds is near the bottom of league in hitting into double plays. Sure, he’s a big RBI guy who swings a heavy bat causing him to strike out a lot. But, it’s the combination of few double-plays coupled with many strike-outs that makes him attractive to the two-hole, especially when Pujols is hitting behind him. Bottom line, is that if Edmonds is going to swing at everything, putting him in front of the best hitter in baseball isn’t such a bad idea. If Eckstein does get on in front of him, you don’t have to worry about double-plays, because as the stats will tell you, he’s most likely to either strike out or hit a home-run.

It’s about time he wins that award , he will be the superstar of baseball once Barzoid leaves this game he cheated on.

That is a good point Is…But Edmonds being near the bottom in GIDP, to me, is just a stat. A number with little meaning. Stay with me here, you have to consider how many times Edmonds has come to bat with a runner on first. Then compare that to how many times EVERY OTHER HITTER IN THE LEAGUE comes up with a runner on first (and that’s if you only consider the traditional double plays…6-4-3,5-4-3,3-6-3,etc).So if Edmonds comes up with a runner on first 115 times, but the guys on the list leading the league in GIDP came up with a runner on first 230 times,then the number isn’t very accurate. If you try doing this, you’ll see that it becomes very complicated and tends to skew a bit.So although numbers like BA,ERA, and GIDP-ratio are a good reference, that’s all they are…a reference. I think TLR as well as many fans take the numbers too seriously.Technically, numbers tell you what a player has done in the past, not what he will do in the future. They show tendencies and history. But they cannot predict the future.

I really don’t mean to be insulting, but Shaun, you’re writing some ignorent, shoddy work. I’d like to cut you some slack since you sound like a high school senior or college first-year, though. Did you look up ANY stats when you wrote your hypothetical? Now, you “stay with me here,” ok? If you had tried doing the math that you described, you’d have seen that it does not become “very complicated.” It’s remarkably simple. (1) Edmonds is not “near the bottom” in GIDP. With zero GIDP this year, Edmonds is tied for the bottom. And considering his NP compared to the other batters with zero GIDP (e.g. Remlinger, Redding, Santos, Quintanilla), he’s actually around the bottom of the bottom in GIDP. (2) Regarding your example: Edmonds does in fact (as you guessed) come to the plate with at least a runner on first less frequently than the 4 batters who lead the league in GIDP. Casey (24 GIDP), Bell (16 GIDP), Feliz (16 GIDP), and Kent (14 GIDP) have 23%, 34%, 36%, and 50% more at bats with at least a runner on first, respectively. So whereas Edmonds had 96 ABs with at least a runner on first, Casey had 118 ABs (23% more). Edmonds had 0 GIDP, while Casey had 24. That’s one giant difference. In other words, with at least a runner on first, Casey GIDP 20% of the time, Bell 12%, Feliz 12%, and Kent 10%. Contrast to Edmonds GIDP 0%. So you see, this really ISN’T very complicated. “Skew” has nothing to do with it. There are certainly other arguments to make. Unfortunately your argument was factless, and 100% wrong. It took maybe 10 minutes for me to compile these statistics. If you’re going to take the time to condescend to others about statistics, perhaps you should take the time to look up a stat or two. [I can show my work, so if you're interested, I can post it for you] Your “numbers…cannot predict the future” spiel is overly simplistic. At the very least, “the numbers” are more useful than your made-up, fanciful numbers. :)

Dude…jschless. Apparently, you totally missed the point of what I was saying. First of all. I didn’t present anything in my last post as a fact.I didn’t make any claims of fact, so don’t tell me I am stupid(which is what you did in so many words). And 2nd, you made my point with your numbers. Edmonds has come to bat fewer times with a chance to GIDP. That means if he got as many chances as other guys, he may have hit into more double-plays. But he may not. My point is only that you can’t use numbers to predict what is going to happen.So you can take your numbers that mean very little, you can take your insults, and your “shoddy” comments and keep them to yourself until you grow up. And let me just reassure you that I am no high school kid or first year college kid. I am 27 years old , and about to graduate with a degree in braodcast journalism.Now if you wanna talk about things like an adult. That’s cool. Make a point and talk like you want to have a civil conversation. That’s what this is for.But if all you wanna do is talk like you know it all,and talk condescending to me,I don’t wanna be a part of that.

KNOW YOUR BASEBALL!!!! I REMEMBER WHEN RED DID NOT KNOW TO DO WITH SIMMONS!! HE HAD TORRE, ALLEN AND SO ON. DID NOT KNOW WHERE TO PUT SIMMONS IN THE LINEUP!!! SO HE ASKED GIBBY WHERE TO PUT THE YOUNG HITTER!!! GIBSON SAID THIS KID CAN HIT 300 AND PUT 20 HRS AND 100 RBI’S WHERE WOULD I PUT HIM!!!! CLEANUP!!!! AND SIMMONS CONTINUE TOO HIT 300+ AND 20HR’S AND 100 RBI’S AND STILL DID NOT GET THE RECON!! HE DESERVES!!!! AS OLD BIG RED SAID THE BEST HITTING CATCHER OF ALL TIME!!! TO BOOT HE WAS A SWITCHER HITTER!!!! HERZOG MADE A BIG MISTAKE FOR PORTER OVER SIMMONS!!!! AS THE BREWERS FANS SAY!! IF IT WAS NOT FOR SIMMONS THEY WOULD HAVE NEVER MET THE CARDS IN THE WS!!!!

i never liked bonds,probably stemed from his giants beating the cards in the playoffs in 02, but I knew everybody was on steroids. There is a stat flying around…since 1900 to 1995 there have been two players to hit over 60 hrs in one season. Since 1995 to the present there have been like 10 or more. The numbers arent exactly right, but the point is still the same. I say if they are gonna let players like bonds in the Hall they sure as better let Pete Rose in….which is worse, betting on baseball or taking steroids. i’m goin with steroids.

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