Rolen heads north; still waiting on Carpenter

Scott Rolen has headed up to St. Louis to receive an examination and treatment on his left shoulder. According to TLR, he’s to receive a shot, with the hope being that it will relieve and strengthen Rolen and help him re-invigorate his offensive production. Rolen hinted before he left that he had developed some concern about the shoulder, and his results certainly suggest some kind of problem.

Meanwhile, they’re still waiting on any kind of news on Carpenter. That obviously means he’s weighing some pretty heavy stuff. May know something tonight, maybe tomorrow, TLR said he expects no later than tomorrow. Stay tuned.

-M, belly full of Cuban food and Cuban coffee. Mmmmmmm.

84 Comments

I’ve been concerned about his shoulder for a while, cause it seemed like he couldn’t drive the ball very well. Then again, he seems to be able to use his glove as well as any 3Bman of all time still.

Wow, Kip is doing surprisingly good, dare I say it? He’s pitching like Chris Carpenter this game. =O

matt/crazy: I think aliens have taken over Wells… more power to ‘em.

Oh, and yeah, I kinda figured Rolen was playing through more pain than we were hearing about…

I wish aliens would take over all of our pitchers then, maybe we might make the playoffs if that happened, or maybe angels would work, after all it worked in angels in the outfield. Heh. Anyways, lets hope this team at least finishes the year with a winning record if they don’t have a chance at the playoffs.

Lets just hope that they finish the year with a good idea about next year and no one gets badly injured. Also for strong performances out of carp mulder scotty rolen and edmonds.

I’m done with Jim Edmonds, I think he needs to retire, he was good at one point, but he’s plagued by injuries over the last couple of years and his batting average has been in a steady decline.

Tonight I feel nastalgic…lets remember the catches and that huge homer last year…Edmonds is a gamer…Here is hope for the rest of the season…

Who cares about the catchers and one homer? He’s old, he batting like .258 over the last 3 years and he’s been injured too many times. His time is up, he needs to retire, he was good, once upon a time. Time to go for some youth, make Schumaker the starter for the rest of the year, and Edmonds the back up Centerfielder, then look forward to next year when we can sign someone else in center.

Edmonds pretty much wants to retire with the Cardinals. His best years have been here, his world championship has been here, and he loves it here. Baseball is all about legacy and faithfulness to your players and your team. As long as Edmonds feels he can contribute to a ball club, then I say let it be with the Cardinals. Besides, with Jimmy you basically have an OF who can help out Skip and help him learn how to defend, get good jumps on the ball, etc.

I’d take an injured Edmonds over a healthy Schumaker any day.

Crazy:

From reading your comments day after day, I get the feeling that you probably kill your pets when they get sick, injured, or lose a step. It’s as though no one and nothing has any value if they fail to perform to your standards 100% of the time.

So I wonder about your pets: do you shoot them, poison them, or tie them to your bumper and speed off down the highway?

Humane readers want to know.

Jimmy may have lost a step or two. He’s bat is quite. But I can not think of any active center fielder who gets a read on a ball as quickly as Edmonds. With the inexperince of Duncan in the right field, I want Edmonds in center. Maybe drop him in the order a bit. If Yadi gets back to hitting like he was before he got hurt(and he is close) we wont be losing to much production. Just move Yadi up and Jimmy down.

Im really diggin Ryan though. Even though the shoulder biting is kinda wierd. I hope we have a spot for him when Scott & Scott return healthly.

Ottor, are you an idiot, because by your statements there you make me wonder if you really are the dumbest person alive? I have not and nor will I ever harm another human being or animal. I’m simply saying, I don’t want a guy who’s going to get injured every year. Edmonds is too old, he strikes out almost a 150 times a year anymore, he bats .250 at the highest, and his on base percentage is low. Yeah, he can make good plays, but since he’s old, one good play by him anymore ends him on the 15 day disabled list. Me, I’d much rather have Coco Crisp in centerfield over Jim Edmonds any day, but seeing as we’re not going to get him, I say we take Schumaker, who’s already healthy and hasn’t yet got injured in center, if that doesn’t work, move Juan Encarnacion to center, and make Schumaker the Rightfielder until Scott Spiezio get healthy, then make him the starting right fielder. I’ll say it one last time, I don’t want a guy who gets injured 3 or 4 times a year playing centerfield.

Crazy, in the last four years Edmonds has struck out 150 times (exactly) once. That was 2004 when people were calling him, Pujols, and Rolen MV3. He batted above .250 each year. He is having a down year this year, yes he got hurt but that happens when you play hard. Coco Crisp gets hurt too, same with Johnny Damon, Aaron Rowand, and a host of other good fielders. I would rather have Edmonds who is going to give it all to get the ball than Encarnacion who will lope over there and pick it up when it bounces off the wall. So when you ask what has Jimmy done for us lately, how about 90 HRs and 270 RBIs from 2004-2006? Protecting Pujols and providing Gold Glove defense in center? Or don’t those things mean anything?

No, it doesn’t. I would much rather have someone who can get on base than who can hit homeruns, someone who bats for average, strikes out less, who knows how to play defense, and who doesn’t get injured so much. Heck if I wanted someone who’d be on the DL more times then not, I’d go out and get Kerry Wood as a starter for the Cardinals. I’ll say it one last time so you understand me. I DON’T LIKE PLAYERS WHO GET INJURED SO MUCH. Is that so wrong of me?

Oh and by the way, don’t try to present an arguement using stats from the year 2004 when that’s the last time he was good, since then, what’s he done? In 2004 he had 42 homeruns, since then he’s had 55, over a 3 year span, including this year. When a player hit 42 homers in one year, then since then he only hits 55, yeah, that means his power numbers are declining as I stated. It’s called aging, he’s losing skill with age.

Juan Pierre’s stats have declined as well, but you still seem to want him around so much. Edmonds OBP is 8 points lower than Pierre’s this year, but the past five it has been higher. 2004 was also the last time that Pierre had an average over .300, same as Edmonds. Edmonds has also outslugged Pierre in the last five seasons.

You can’t completely write off Jimmy because of his injury history. Look at Griffey, who’s older than Edmonds btw. His injury history is worse than Jim’s, yet he’s still able to bounce back. Give him a chance.

Exactly. Crazy, listen to the man. Did you want to write off Pujols when he stuggled with plantar fasciitis? Do you want to dump Carpenter because of his arm troubles? He has an injury history and has missed more time than Edmonds over the years.

Carp was actually the next example I was thinking of. Rolen too.

I figured Crazy has written off Rolen before, so he wouldn’t be a good example.

Too many people have written off Rolen right now I think. I won’t for another year or two if he keeps up the performance this year.

He seems to be making better contact, power will come. Same thing happened with Pujols; he wasn’t hitting for power but as his average climbed his power woke up.

Rolen needs a Home Run Derby perhaps

Maybe. Maybe this break he’s getting will do the same thing as when he was benched in the playoffs. He came back with a vengeance and had a great Series.

I agree. He needs a break mentally I think. He might be worried about his shoulder a bit.

Ha, ha, ha, you two are hilarious. Look at you, comparing Jim Edmonds decline to Juan Pierres. Let’s compare some stats of my own here. Jim Edmonds in 2005 .263 batting average, 5 stolen bases, 5 cought steals, 88 runs scored. Juan Pierre in 2005 .276 batting average, 57 stolen bases, 17 caught steals. Jim Edmonds in 2006 .257 batting average, 4 stolen bases, 0 caught steals. Juan Pierre in 2006 .292 batting average, 58 stolen bases, 7 caught steals. Oh did I forget to mention Edmonds strike out total in 2005 and 2006 combine, it’s 240 to Juan Pierres 83, wow big difference there. Game played for edmonds from 2005-2006 252, Juan Pierre 324, Juan Pierre hasn’t missed a game in 3 years, Jim Edmonds has missed 106.

Oh and did I forget to mention that more often than not, Jim Edmonds watches a pitch go right down the middle of the plate, then swings at pitches way out of the Strike Zone?

Edmonds walks more. In 461 games since 2004 Jimmy has walked 265 times. Pierre’s number over the same span? 581 games and 134 walks. So Edmonds walks twice as much. Yes, his 100 walk season skews that significantly in Edmonds favor, but 2004 was also a career year for Pierre. Take out that year for both and Pierre still comes out on the short end. Pierre just doesn’t get on base enough to replace Edmonds in center or Eck in the lead off spot.

Strikeout totals I don’t mind. With a guy on base and less than 2 out, would you rather a strikeout or a DP?

Strikeout thank you very much.

He’s got more than enough to replace Jim Edmonds, in 2005 Jim batted .263, and in 2006 he batted .257, whereas in 2005 Juan batted .276 and in 2006 he batted .292, wow, Jim edmonds dropped. .14 in batting average where as Juan Pierre raise his .16, looks like Pierre is increasing whereas Jim just keeps decreasing. And Eckstein in 2005-2006 combined scored 158 runs batting leadoff and Juan Pierre in the same period of time scored 183. Hmm, if you put Pierre batting leadoff and Eckstein batting second, see what happens then.

Runs are a function of the people batting behind you. You keep mentioning batting average, but ignore OBP. Most of the baseball experts I see agree that OBP and SLG are a much better measure of a player’s contribution than the old standard of AVG, HRs, RBIs.

BA is still an archaic stat. OBP and SLG are better to use. From 2005-2006, Juan Pierre has a total of 503 TB in 1355 ABs, that’s a SLG of .371. Edmonds in that stretch has a grand total of only 414 TBs but in 817 ABs, giving him a SLG of .507, showing that Edmonds can provide better protection for Pujols and Rolen than Pierre. Edmonds also this year, in limited action, has hit 5 FEWER HRs than Pierre has over his entire career. We’ve got guys that can get on base with Eckstein, Ryan, Miles and Taguchi. We need someone besides Pujols who will drive them in.

And btw, just because you are decreasing, doesn’t mean that you are completely out of gas.

I’ll say it again, how many times has Jim Edmonds been on the DL since 2005, and how many times has Juan Pierre been on the DL?

Also, about Pierre’s rise in BA, you are forgetting one critical thing Crazy. Edmonds moved from a fairly neutral park (BS 2) to a semi pitcher’s park in BS 3. Pierre moved from another fairly neutral park in Pro Player (i refuse to call it Dolphin Stadium) into a hitter’s paradise in Wrigley Field, yet he STILL couldn’t hit for power.If you neutralize their stats, you’ll see that for their careers, Edmonds has the better OBP and SLG than Pierre.

Name me one great player that has not spent a significant time out of the lineup due to something (ie injury, war service, etc).

We are not debating the injury issue anymore. You neglected to respond to our arguments about that, so I figure its a dead issue. And matto, quit stealing my point about OBP! kidding.

You truly have no common sense, you keep talking about career stats, if you haven’t noticed, Jim Edmonds is decreasing in everything, where Juan Pierre keeps increasing. Use some common sense here Jim Edmonds isn’t the same person he used to be and Juan Pierre just keeps getting better. And you brought up something about another guy in the lineup to bring in run, how about the guy who’s got the second most homers on the Cardinals Chris Duncan. Here’s a lineup for you: Juan Pierre, David Eckstein, Albert Pujols, Chris Duncan, Scott Rolen, Juan Encarnacion, Yadier Molina, Adam Kennedy, and then the pitchers spot. If Juan Pierre steals and they walk Pujols, they have Duncan to deal with. Think about before speaking again.

oh yeah, and quit talking about the past, talk about the present, Juan Pierre .286, Jim Edmonds .234 or something along those lines. That’s um what you call OWNAGE.

Oh and again, look where Jim Edmonds is, the DL and when he gets back, by the end of the year, where will he be, the DL.

Duncan strikes out too, but you seem to give him a pass because he isn’t hurt. Pierre isn’t increasing in every area. His OBP has dropped from .330 last year to .316 now. Average has dropped too, cause I know its your favorite stat to make your argument against Edmonds. His defense isn’t as good as Edmonds either.

There are two ways to have an argument:
1. Present your facts in a calm, controlled manner and let them make the case for you.

2. Bully and belittle people into not disagreeing with you.

I think that there should be more of no.1 and less of no. 2 on this blog.

Respect yourself. Respect each other. Respect the space.

–Mrs. Dude

Wow…now you’re bashing us for trying to peacefully debate? you really are being stubborn. Duncan is still way too inexperienced to be able to provide enough protection to albert.

Hmm, and lets see, Pierre has played in 91 games this year and 162 last year, so doesn’t that mean that those stats could rise. And as far as Duncan striking out, isn’t Duncan also healthy, playing a lot more games than Jim Edmonds, batting higher than Jim Edmonds, getting walked more than Jim edmonds, driving in more rbis than Jim Edmonds and hitting a lot more homeruns than Jim Edmonds, and wouldn’t that still be so if Jim was healthy, which he never seems to be anymore.

BTW, if you haven’t noticed, which you didn’t, I used the same timeframe you did with a previous argument, 2005-2006.

Bottom line is that when Edmonds is healthy, there aren’t many better CFers in the game. And there’s no way that we are going to get Pierre off of the Dodgers, he got way too much of a contract, so why are we even debating that?

Oh and by the way Mrs. Dude, I’m not bullying or belittling people, I’m just stating facts.

Yes, but how often is Jim Edmonds healthy?

I believe that telling people they have no common sense is belittling and bullying, but I’m not complaining. Yes Duncan is batting for a better average, but he does strike out. You seem to make them all of your complaints about one big issue, and any attempt to address any one of the complaints results in redirection to a different one. We have presented the argument that when Edmonds is healthy he gets on base at a higher clip than Pierre and is a superior fielder. And yes he is injured now, but what is stopping that from happening to Pierre. Either he is lucky, which no one can help, or he is not playing as hard as Edmonds, which is bad.

Okay, yes he gets on base more, but what does he fail to do when he does get on base, oh yeah, that’s right, score, when you have a guy with speed, even though he may have a lower on base percentage doesn’t make him less better than the other guy, the people on espn have even stated that they like Pierre because of his ability to score runs for the team, and when you can do that it makes the team better.

I just don’t think he would fit with the way this team has been built, and it would require far more of an overhaul than just swapping Pierre in for Edmonds. I like the leadership and defense that Edmonds brings. If he comes back healthy then his bat should improve. I know you don’t think that he can stay healthy, but he has proven in the past that his is a quick healer, so we can agree to disagree on this.

No, crazy, she’s right. You’re insulting people and I won’t tolerate it. Saying things like “You truly have no common sense” and “are you an idiot, because by your statements there you make me wonder if you really are the dumbest person alive” — that’s insulting people.

I will not tolerate name-calling. I will not tolerate insults. I appreciate everyone who reads and posts here. But I absolutely will not put up with it when and if the discourse turns to name-calling and insults. Take it somewhere else, because it will not be permitted here.

-M.

Good to hear from you M, even if it is under poor circumstances. Any news on Edmonds? I heard he might be activated today.

Yada, yada, yada, blah, blah, blah. This is called America, and when in America, I have this thing known as freedom of speech, which means when i want to insult someone, i can, and there’s nothing you can do about it, if you want to try and take that away, i will simply take you to court for violating priveleges granted to me under the state constitution. But enough of that back to what bulldogg is saying, I simply don’t like Edmonds for the plain and simple fact that he looks at a pitch going down the middle of the plate, but swings at a ball way outside of the plate, you can talk about his defense all you like, but that doesn’t change the fact he’s getting old and it’s time for a change, he’s striking out more, batting less, and getting injured more than ever before.

Not to mention the united states constitution there.

We officially have a troll. Everyone, please ignore. Thanks.

-M.

Uh-huh.

Oh and by the way, I only insult people when they get on my nerves, I am a very tempermental person when I feel threatened, and oh by the way Matthew, may you should post a set of rules, I seem to follow them, but since it says nowhere on here that I can’t speak freely, I guess you’re just going to have to get used to it.

For EVERYONE, not just any one person out of all of you —

If you have not seen it, then you have simply ignored it, because I’ve posted it again and again.

The ONLY rule on here is to respect one another. Dissent is welcome. It’s great. It’s what makes things fun. But when people insult one another, that’s not OK. I can’t believe I still have to remind y’all of that.

-M.

Yes, the only rule is that I must respect them, you can respect them and still insult them, my brothers respect me, but they always insult me.

My brother and I insult each other too, but I don’t treat random people like my brother. Not everyone has a family dynamic like that, and not everyone will take your arguments seriously when you resort to name calling.

Crazy–
Free speech is only free up until the point that you defame someone. Saying “Ottor, are you an idiot, because by your statements there you make me wonder if you really are the dumbest person alive?” is defamation. I will go to great lengths to protect your right to free speech. Defamation is not, however, the same as free speech.

There is a difference between “speaking freely” and peppering your replies with insults like the one quoted in the first paragraph. You have every right to give you opinion.

We don’t know you in real life, Crazy, so we have no way of knowing if you’re kidding or not when you say the things that get people upset. In a forum like this, people assume a level of familiarity that just isn’t there. So while it’s appropriate to say things like “are you an idiot” to your friends, because they know your tone, it’s not in a forum like this because we don’t really know each other.

I don’t actually think you’re a troll, though, FWIW. I think you have some great ideas and I think you make some good points. What is hard to swallow, though, is when you say things like “are you an idiot.” Everybody has their own opinions, and everybody has the right to express those opinions. I just hope we can do it in a respectful way.

–Mrs. Dude

M you married a smart and eloquent woman.

**** right. Gorgeous too. I’m a lucky dog.

-M.

BTW (and FWIW), I also think Ottor was in the wrong for saying what he(?) said about Crazy.

Free speech, in my opinion, doesn’t cover that either.

–Mrs. Dude.

Well I appalogize to everyone else, but I refuse to appalogize to ottor, because he/she suggested that I killed animals when they were injured, just because I wanted to get rid of Jim Edmonds due to being injured too many times over the last couple of years, and I find that insulting.

Absolutely, but that doesn’t mean that you have to sink to someone’s level. Rise above, support your argument with facts and no one will be able to complain.

I agree with you, Crazy. For what little it might be worth.

–Mrs. Dude

It’s worth a lot, I think I might go buy a car by selling it. =P Just kidding.

Can I move the convo. back to Edmonds by asking a baseball question? Admittedly I know v. little about baseball…

Do you guys think that Edmond’s performance has been affected by his concussion and the after-effects of that?

I keep thinking that at his age, and with those kinds of things to deal with, that getting the numbers he used to must be hard.

Those are valid points, but there are plenty of guys that continue producing into their 40s. I believe somebody mentioned Griffey, who has had one freak accident after another, but is putting together a nice season.

That’s just because Ken Griffey is just one of those players, he’s let me see here, oh yeah, simply just amazing.

He is an example of an aging player who has been plagued with injuries. I don’t know what we will get out of Edmonds, and I can’t predict the future, but it is not impossible for Jimmy to bounce back from this and put up good numbers.

Game, set, match.

For what it’s worth, Edmonds has 1 of the 2 hits tonight in his return from the DL. Griffey is a 1st round HoFer, no question. However, Edmonds I think if he can stay healthy will also be in the HoF.

Hmm, I was surprised by what Griffey said earlier this year. He said if that he were traded he’d want to play for the Cubs. And am I the only one looking forward to Miguel Cabrera being a free agent, since he said he wanted to play along Albert Pujols.

Oh everyone wants Cabrera, so there’s going to be a huge contract coming his way. Not saying that I don’t want him on the Cards (because I do) I just don’t think we’ll be able to sign him.

About Griffey with the Cubs, he wants to play for Pinella again. Can’t blame him. Any guy that can take the Cubs from jokes to legit contenders is a good manager.

Hmmm, didn’t Dusty Baker do that once, when the Cubs finished the season with 93 wins underneath of him? So doesn’t that mean that Dusty is actually a good manager that was handed a bad team, but Piniella is an average manager handed an awesome team, even though I hate the Cubs, they do have a pretty stacked lineup.

Dusty was ruined by the Cubs because of Wood and Prior. The upper management got him no other starters but them.

Yeah, Baker is a good manager, if the Cardinals don’t resign LaRussa this year, I think I’d like to see Girardi or Baker and I don’t know, but if Walker wants to do something in the Cardinals organization, I say we give him a shot at something, maybe one of the base coaches, a hitting coach, a minor league manager, a big league manager, or just something.

Start Walker as a minor league coach, be it hitting or otherwise. I think if we don’t resign TLR we should go after Baker, but TLR would still be my first choice.

Yeah, I think Walker would be a good manager or hitting coach.

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