It's Oh So Quiet

With a nod to Bjork, here’s what I know. Per Cards PR, Pineiro is the extent of it. I am honestly very surprised; I really figured they would ship somebody out once they added Pineiro. Don’t know yet whether he’s going to Memphis or straight to STL or what, but I have been told that it’s likely that he’ll start, rather than relieve.

-M.

26 Comments

So that’s it? No one else today? Is he planning another big post-deadline trade? Something like Walker or Williams years ago?

oh for cryin’ out loud…I’m extremely disappointed by the lack of a significant move. Jocketty had the opportunity to follow his team’s weekend momentum/sweep with a big move and possibly give his team the confident feeling of a championship hopeful…instead, the quiet, solitary whisper of “You’re on your own, boys…” lingers in the locker room as Jocketty prepares for his eventual (sooner rather than later ???) departure from St. Louis. I love Walt, but i’m getting the distinct feeling he’s shopping for jewelery at Dollar General.

This is the worst case scenario, in my opinion. If you trade guys like Juan away for young talent, at least it feels like you’re going to try in the near future. If you trade prospects for big name stars, at least it feels like you’re trying to win. Sitting back and not doing anything just feels like you don’t care either way.

Add Pineiro to the increasing(ly depressing) list of mediocre starters vying for a job to blow division games before they even begin. Yippie!!!

Gotta be honest, I don’t know why people would have wanted this team to buy at the deadline. They’re six and five games behind two teams that are pretty clearly better than they are, and I don’t see a single player who changed hands today who really would have changed that fact.

The best thing, IMO, would have been to acknowledge that even after winning three games, the target should be ’08.

The single best move they could have made today, in my mind? To find their 2008 shortstop. I’m a little nonplussed by the series of events, but I really can’t share anyone’s displeasure that this team didn’t do something like add Matt Morris or Scott Proctor or Ty Wigginton or something.

-M.

I just wanted them, if they aren’t going to resign Eckstein, to get something for him now beyond draft picks. Our rotation next year isn’t looking any better than now. so what is the best choice to grab?

They need to ship out LaRussa b/c playing role players like Taguchi every other day, it wont matter who pitches. How in the world does he expect to have a gold glove winner and allstar like Edmonds and one of the best young hitters like Duncan sitting the bench every time a lefty pitches, and expects to win still….IT MAKES ME SICK. Get rid of Taguchi and let your guys play. LaRussa was complaining about his players being healthy but who cares b/c he doesn’t play the best players anyway.

St. Louis is the only team to play their bench as much as they do and LaRussa has really done this more over the last 2 years…is it any wonder why we can’t play .500 ball anymore. I think LaRussa has gone way to far, and it’s no wonder the players seem to be losing respect for him.

Yeah, the owners are rakin in the money and still will NOT open up the pocket books to get the talent to compete every year. It’s no wonder why we’ve been goin south in wins the last 3 years…Dewitt needs to start spending money if he expects the team to win. I feel like intead of Cardinals on their jersey, it should say cheapskates

And this has what to do with the deadline? Please. Don’t. Hijack. Threads.

Thanks.

-M.

You’ve got to be kidding me. THIS is what we’ve got now? TLR and Jocketty have both lost it. Time for a new GM and manager.

What does TLR have to do with ANY of this?

Color me odd here, but I’m happy with the way this worked out.

* From a “buying” perspective, there was not a lot out there worth going for. Certainly the only player actually traded who can really affect the competitive balance in a division was Teixeira, and since he’s a first baseman, he doesn’t exactly scratch a Cardinals itch. No other game-changing stars reputed to be on the block — Adam Dunn, Jon Garland, etc. — moved, because the asking prices were uniformly too high. Now that the Cards’ farm system is finally producing some talent after too many dry years, why devastate it in a weird market to get one of those guys, or even damage it at all to get someone who won’t really help?

* And no point in being a “seller” either. For one thing, the team is still — barely — in the hunt, and tearing it down doesn’t make sense. For another, the plausible trade bait (Eck, Encarnacion, a right-handed bullpen arm or two) didn’t figure to bring much in return, since none of them were game-changers. Think the Yankees were going to give up Philip Hughes, or the D-Backs Justin Upton, for an Eckstein or Encarnacion rental? Think again…

* Finally, the one move they did make was low-risk, unless the minor-league PTBNL is a lot more of a prospect that the writers expect. If Pineiro doesn’t pan out, no big deal; and once upon a time, he was pretty good, so maybe Duncan can do something useful there, for once this year. (OK, twice; Franklin counts as a success.)

You can’t expect Jocketty to fashion a division-winning trade out of pure force of will. There has to be a deal lurking that actually has a chance of coming about. Lacking that, I don’t mind a conservative approach to deadline deals this year at all.

I agree. TLR said that we will know more by the end of the week if we will be in the hunt or not and Jocketty is more known for waiver trades than deadline moves. And you can’t make something from nothing, if there isn’t a move that could be made to help out, you can’t make it.

I’m ok with our trade deadline move(s) or lack thereof. I’m with Matt…why would we want the Cards to spend a bunch of money on a big name (who,by the way, isn’t even available) during a season in which we are maybe the second or third best team in OUR DIVISION!! I like the Piniero deal, because of low risk/High reward potential. Dave Duncan seems to be able to help RHPs much more than lefties anyway. I think Piniero will be this year’s Jeff Weaver, or possibly, DARE I SAY, the next Woody Wiiliams.

I throughly enjoyed this weekend. It was nice to see the Cardinals rally, but I don’t think the Cardinals really have a chance this year.(Although I’ll keep my fingers crossed until the end) As said above a low risk move that could work seems like a good move since it appears that there wasn’t much on the market that would fit with the Cards.

After my initial disappointment in the lack of moves, I’ve since calmed down and have to say I’m not happy but not upset either. I wasn’t looking for us to get a ‘big name,’ but I was hoping for a somewhat stable, proven starting pitcher. To me, our starting staff’s problem hasn’t been that we don’t have a big name or so-called “dominating” pitching presence, it’s simply that we don’t know what we’re going to get out of our starters from start to start. We need a stabilizing presence. We need a pitcher who is going to give you essentially the same game from start to start and leave it up to the other 8 guys on the field to win it for you. As it stands, most of our starters usually have a large hand in actually losing the game for you because of inconsistency. That was Jeff Suppan’s greatest attribute…not that he pitched brilliantly every once in a while, but that he pitched consistently most of the time…then, you win some, lose some. I prefer my pitchers to be a non-factor. Perhaps Pineiro will turn out to be another Weaver or Williams…we’ll see. All said…I’ll give Jocketty the benefit of the doubt.

MATT – to answer your question about why make a move being 5 or 6 games back…you just don’t throw in the towel after a World Series title. I know you’re not saying that…but after listening to all the “they weren’t the best team” stuff from talk shows and papers after our Series victory, I just want our team to do SOMETHING to help validate last season. A winning record this year would help. I don’t want us to give up a lot or make a huge committment to a ‘rental’ player to do it, and I know a Series title needs no independent validation, but I just want to see a respectable season after the Series winning season. Is that too much to ask as long as we do it with minimal cost/risk/long-term damage?

I was kinda hoping that Ryan would be the SS of the future…

Im ok with the lack of moves as I couldnt see how we could imporve for this year. I would have preferred unloading Izzy; Juan, and maybe Eck. {Dont get me wrong, I love David} But Izzy didnt want to leave. No one needed ****. And I guess not enough intrest in Jaun. Im against making a move for the sake of making a move.

It’s difficult to be original here, as Matt’s points are well-taken, as are those raised by others. Given what was available, Jocketty picked up a guy who the Cards wanted to sign this past winter (see SI.com’s TLR quote). So, I like the trade on it’s own merits.

More to the point, under the present circumstances it makes even more sense – little downside risk/decent potential for upside payoff – so whether or not it works out in the long term is moot. At this juncture, rebuilding mid-season, particularly with the shortage of bona fide talent on the market that would fit the current roster, or the specter of an acquisition cost that would leave gaping holes in the lineup or drain the budget for years to come, this move also makes sense.

I took a look at the numbers… As tantalizingly close as 6 GB seems, with only two months of the schedule remaining, even if the Brewers and Cubs only play one game over .500 ball over the August-September stretch, the Cards are going to need to win at a .627 clip to make it happen — stranger things have already occurred as the Cubs were at .640 for June/July — go figure. This all assumes an 87-75 W/L record takes the division. We’d have to be lucky AND good for all this to work our way — given the two teams ahead of the Cards circling the airport for the next 60 days, that’s still one heck of a hill for our guys to climb – especially for a team that has been mired below the .500 mark most of the year.

The bottom line: Short-term euphoria and 2006 World Series Title aside, unless the Cards can sustain the level of play they’ve demonstrated only very recently, visions of repeating last year’s unfathomable finish are purely the stuff of $2 pitcher night reflections at the local pub. In the end, Pineiro trade seems appropriate to the circumstances — why bet the farm when the probability of a payoff isn’t very high? Also, if by some bloody Dave Duncan-orchestrated miracle, Pineiro can resurrect his ability to win as a starter, then the winter wishlist of transactions will no doubt be altered.

All this said, the appropriate time to give the roster a serious re-shuffling would be during the off-season. I know, I’m contradicting my post to an earlier thread, but I’ve come to my senses, or at least that’s my story now…and I’m sticking to it.

Really, I’m not thinking title or playoffs or penant or anything like that this year. I just want a winning record when it is all said and done. With the injuries, tragedies, and just flat-out difficulties the Cardinals have endured this year, a winning record would be enough to call the season a success.

MathDude (you don’t happen to be an old college roommate of mine, do you?) raises a really important point.

It’s a much tougher hill to climb because of the virtual tie in first place. Chasing down one team is much, much easier than chasing down two. I’m not saying it can’t happen, but that difference really does alter the equation pretty significantly.

-M.

LOL! Sorry, Matt, no ex-roomy here. Maybe I’m just channeling him for the time being. Thanks for the props, though.

Where you stand depends on where you sit …from my perspective, I’d like nothing better than to see the Cards prevail, for one, it beats the heck out of telling Cub fans to stuff a sock in it. But, in the end, I’m a realist, and I have trouble seeing all the pieces falling into place for the Cardinals this year and have my concerns moving forward as well. Hence, my view of the team’s limited trade deadline activity. By my thinking, the current difficulties run deeper than any 11th hour acquisition was ever going to remedy (I’m ducking as I type in anticipation of a full-on rebuke, but so be it).

I may be venturing a new thread here, so I apologize in advance, Matt, but it goes to my point… It’s hard to accept that this year’s roster hasn’t shown the performance typical of what we’ve come to expect from this team over the past 3 or 4 years—on many levels. Not to minimize a starting rotation absent its linchpin, Carpenter; Mulder’s uncertain rehab; Josh Hancock’s untimely death, Reye’s collapse and the departure of Marquis and Suppan (26 wins between them in ’06, no matter what we thought of them at the time), but collectively, these guys haven’t produced runs, hit for power or played defense like Cardinal teams in the recent past (last year excepted?). I won’t even venture the current starting rotation.

In short, you can only stopgap with a single trade what entails a partial rebuild to remedy (this is me, ducking again).

By virtue of this season’s extended mediocrity, and last year’s bumpy ride — including three separate losing streaks of at least seven games, and winning just 83 regular season games — facing down three arguably/clearly (take your pick) superior post-season opponents looks even MORE improbable in hindsight, than it did the night of Game 5 of the 2006 World Series.

Last year’s post-season windfall may have been a FAR more heroic effort—from a collective group of slightly above average performers (Pujols excepted, of course)—than we gave the team credit for at the time. It was likely the ultimate example of a team “rising to the occasion.” They were already on the decline, but came up big one last time on strength of will and the desire to win.

I have a question Matthew, instead of asking people not to hijack the threads, can you please just post a blog where we can talk anything about baseball that we want, including stuff from other teams or our dream teams or something like that, you’re restricting what we can and can not talk about and it’s severely disappointing.

Crazy, this isn’t a public discussion board. This is M’s personal blog. That means he gets to decide what topics he wants to talk about, and what kinds of things he wants to hear from people about. I’m pretty sure this isn’t a job requirement for him, just something fun that he wants to do. There are plenty of other places where you can talk about whatever you want.

My dearest bulldoggo friend, the point of me posting that comment was so people on here, Cardinals fans who have never met, and who probably never will meet, could talk about baseball related topics, without being accussed of hijacking the thread.

Bulldog hit it on the head.

This is my blog. It’s not a message board. I love having discussion about the topics that are in play. I wouldn’t leave it open to comments if I didn’t. But if you want an all-topics-open Cardinals message board, there are lots of them all over the web. This isn’t one of them.

And it’s not “accusing” anybody. If there’s a topic, and somebody posts something completely unrelated to said topic, well, everybody knows what that constitutes.

Again, I really, truly appreciate everyone who reads this stuff. I know you don’t have to. And I appreciate the participation and discussion in all sorts of topics. But message boards are message boards, and this is a blog.

Thanks.

-M.

I know what you’re trying to say Matthew but someone earlier said they were disappointed with this teams lack of spending money, and you said they hijacked the thread.

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