Tuesday night update

The tone from Mozeliak’s briefing tonight was a little different on Rolen than last night. He gave the impression that things are currently very cool with Milwaukee, and that there are fewer teams seriously in the mix today than yesterday.

"It’s just become a little more clear who’s real serious inthis in terms of like if we’re trying to move our third baseman. But we’re
nowhere close to where we feel we’re getting what we need to get to make a deal
like that happen."

He reiterated, repeatedly, that they are happy not to move him if they don’t get a good deal. Basically he said that right now they don’t see any current offers that are fair value, and if they don’t get fair value, they won’t deal him.

Also sounded very much like they’re not shopping Reyes. Listening to offers, sure, but not shopping him.

think when you try to weigh out the value, people are trying to look at how he
pitched last year, and his record, and thinking they can just take advantage of
that situation. And I think internally we look at him a little better than

Plenty more when my story goes up on the site later this evening. Also, I walked outside a door to breathe fresh air for the first time in 40 hours today. It was nice.



I’m not sure what the deal here is, is Mo just getting cold feet with everyone? You gotta give something to get something, I’d rather then trade them now while they have value, rather then wait around and let their value sink. i’m afraid they are going to look bad at their non moves this winter and be sorry.

I think that they need to trade Reyes no matter what they get for him. It is obvious that the Duncan/LaRussa/Reyes combo isn’t working. If they don’t trade him I hope he stays in Memphis.

To each his own, but I very much like what I’m hearing here. What he’s really saying is that moves will be made if they improve the team, not if they make it easier for management. That’s exactly the way a leader should behave. Now let’s see if he can walk the walk.

however…you don’t decide the market for a player you want to trade, the teams that are interested do. So if you do want to move someone like Reyes, you can’t have too high a value for him.

Why don’t the Cards ever pony up on a big name player? You see teams doing it every year. The Cards had only the 12th highest payroll this year at just over 90 million, but last year had the seventh highest revenue at 184 million. And they have the sixth highest market value at over 460 million. Why can’t they package Rolen, Reyes and a couple other prospects, not Rasmus, and go over Sanatna? Or anyone for that matter?

I live in Dallas and I see what happens when an owner is willing to drop a dime on talent. The Mavs are a constant playoff team now and the Cowboys are the best team in NFC. Why can’t the Cards do the same? I never understood it. The Yankees, Red Sox, Angels and Tigers are showing that if you want to compete for a title, you have to spend the money. I hate that it’s come to this, but it’s true.

harmonee..I completely agree with you all we ever hear is how the cardinals “can’t compete” with the big market teams and that is ridiculous. The cards are sold out every game, every year, they just got a new ballpark, have revenue and money coming in huge amounts and yet we always have to settle for the “bargain”! I’m tired of the Kip Wells of the world. If Rolen doesn’t want to be here then trade him, Cabrera and Willis were there for the taking..Is someone really trying to tell me they would rather have Rasmus a guy that played very well in “AA Ball” over Cabrera?? If you say you would rather have that then your a big gambler. It’s time for the cards to step up to the plate and compete with the big boys. I heard the rumor of Rolen and Duncan for Blalock and Milwood of the Rangers…whats the holdup, Rolen doesn’t want to be here, and Duncan has big power (when he makes contact) and average at best defense..Let’s get a deal done!

The Cardinals are a consent playoff team…

Who ever said Rolen doesn’t want to be here!??Do us all a favor and don’t make stuff up people.Being a Cardinal has been Scott Rolen’s dream since he was a kid.The animosity comes from LaRussa, and his attitude that he is somehow better than other people.He criticizes Rolen for not telling him about his shoulder hurting,yet he makes plenty of mistakes as a manager and person (see DUI).
And what player would tell him about an injury that they feel like they can play through.Scott Rolen is not the crybaby that JD Drew is.Scott Rolen will play through injuries if he can, and IF him not telling LaRussa about his shoulder pain actually hurt the club more than his defense helped, THEN tell him he excercised bad judgment and ask him never to do it again.FOR GOD”S SAKE, though, don’t trade Scott Rolen!!!!!!!!!

I also think Rolen wants to be a Cardinal. His best years have been here and he has the WS Ring here. If he is healthy, then by all means keep him.

I don’t think you can bring the DUI in to this arguement. It doesn’t makes sense. Everyone makes mistakes as a person as nobody is perfect.

What are you people smoking? Do you really believe the Cards have the chips to trade for Santana or for Cabrerra without trading Pujols your insane. Rasmus and Anderson are the only prospects that anyone has an interest in and all the other “chips” have a knock against them(Rolen always hurt, Reyes 5+ era and 2-14 record). So what BIG name player can you get for these? NO ONE. So who are the Cardinals supposed to spend their money on.Silva or Lohse at 4 years and 40million thats insane too. Be patient this is going to be a rough year, but it will get better in 09 if they don’t do something stupid now.

I don’t understand why these two grownup’s cannot come to terms with each other. They both should recognize their value and viceversa to the team. Is it Rolen or La Russa acting like a children? I never noticed Rolen act anything but humble, I am doubtful that La Russa is very humble and although he may be a great mgr., people come to see Rolen and the actual players. Someone needs to come off his high horse and do what’s good for the team. It makes mad that this has been going on without resolution, can’t Witt or someone referee this thing or is La Russa unwilling to curb his pride. This is stupid.

Looks like Tony went and blabbed his mouth a bit too much regarding Rolen (again). Thanks for completely blowing our cover, ya idiot. Rumor has it that TLR is purchasing a blinking neon hat for Mo that says “WE ARE INCREDIBLY DESPERATE TO MOVE SCOTT ROLEN! PLEASE TAKE ADVANTAGE OF OUR PUBLIC DISPLAYS OF AFFECTION BY ROBBING US BLIND!” for the Holidays. Sure, the caps costs extra, but Tony doesn’t mind. Adds a little “pow” to the statement… Might be a heavy hat, though.

So exactly what do we give up to get Bedard, Dude, assuming Rasmus is untouchable (which he should be, in my opinion)? Certainly a T. Johnson/Dunc/Garcia/Hoff/Anderson deal couldn’t get it done, right? And parting with Wainwright, in my opinion, defeats the purpose; I have confidence that Wainy will put up a low 3 ERA next season.

I can’t believe that a package of Reyes, Duncan and a middle reliever would not get either a good starting pitcher or a corner OF bat.
Duncan and Reyes are both young and inexpensive and have upsides. Cards are pretty deep in middle pen.

Still have Edmonds, Ankiel, Spezio, Ludwig and Schumacher

in the OF.

I knew I didn’t want Tony back… the “It couldn’t be me, it has to be him; I’ll never recognize my role in publicly embarrassing a key player, I’ll never acknowledge my failure to communicate, I’m not going to change at all… as manager, everyone’s gotta hew to my line or quit!” kind of **** simply goes along with never recognizing that, if you tell a future hall of famer that his position goes to the man who plays best in Spring Training and then the future hall of famer outplays the new import, you need to give the future hall of famer the job! and a million young pitchers ruined. Luckily, he’s a genius.

This recent outblast by Tony seriously damaged Rolen’s trade value. Teams view us as needing to move him now, so we’ll get less and less back until we bite the bait.

I seriously don’t understand how Tony can justify it. He slams Scotty for not being a team player, meanwhile he’s screaming out private club information for every GM to hear. Hey kettle? Guess what color you are and win a contract extension.

I don’t know if Rolen has done enough to get into the Hall of Fame yet. His offensive numbers, aside from 2004, have been very good, but never dominant. Once has he hit above .300, only 3 times hitting more than 30 HRs and never hitting 35. He obviously has some more time left, but i don’t think he is quite at the hall of fame level yet. Could he get there? Possibly. But he needs to get healthy first, but that seems to be a major problem.

That being said, His lack of offense last year I think really hurt the team more than his defense helped it. He was needed to be the big bat to give AP protection. That didn’t work, so he was dropped in the order. Eventually it became evident that something was not right with him as he really wasn’t hitting at all. He was going months without HRs at times.

Granted that his defense is one of the best of all time, but with a shoulder that you know is not working at even close to 85%, I’d be nervous about putting him in the field. He loves to dive for balls, and if he does that with a bad shoulder, he might just dislocate that shoulder or damage it even more.

Unfortunately we don’t have the luxury of knowing all of the inside details on the matter, but from the outside looking in we see some tremendous dessention between manager and player here. What is most frustrating is the fact that Scott Rolen has done things for the Cardinals that will one day, God willing, provide him with a plaque in Cooperstown as the Cardinals infielder that did for us what the Wizard did for the shortstop position a few decades ago.
I have followed LaRussa ever since he has come to St. Louis from Oakland, and seen what he has done to metamorphosise this team into POTENTIAL dynasty caliber material.

LaRussa once commented that a young, potentially amazing outfielder just didn’t have the heart he once did, and maybe if he allowed him to move on to greener pastures that he might fleourish. And despite our better judgement, we traded him to Atlanta and J.D. Drew exploded on the main stage.

I am an avid Scott Rolen fan. Make no mistake about that. But maybe the truth is it’s time for LaRussa to **** it up and accept the fact that his abrasive coaching style, high demands, and tenacious desire for the betterment of his team and swallow his pride and let Scotty go without a fight. Every time he makes a statement on the matter it truly seems to impact our entire organization, as well as any trade potential for Scotty in a negative manner.

THAT being said, what Mo and the rest of the organization needs to realize is that maybe we can put a positive spin on this entire situation and use it to our distinct advantage. Not unlike J.D. Drew, who was constantly “injured” in his final season with STL, Rolen’s trade status might improve if we can all just keep these in-house matters to ourselves, and perhaps we can make a package trade with Rolen to pick up some solid pitching prospects. As we all know, the Cardinals management tends to lean WAY too much on individual pitchers to carry the team (i.e. Matty Mo, Carpenter, and most recently Wainright) only to exhaust them to the point that they sustain injuries or just lose their concentration.

I would hate to see him go, but perhaps it is in the best interest of both the Cards and Scotty Rolen to just simply part ways. Just don’t send him to the Cubs, kharma is still knocking on that door…


I was very upset when I read the headline about Tony’s comments regarding Rolen. Then I read the story. Thank God for Tony’s honesty.

Scott Rolen is my favorite player on the team. I will be as near as you can get to heart-broken regarding baseball if he leaves St. Louis. BUT…I have always said Rolen and Tony need to act like grown men and get this resolved. Tony has just shown that he is doing that, now.

His comments, whether you like them or not, are very fair. He expressed his frustration and confusion as well as his anger. However, he made it clear Rolen is WANTED. He is only interested in bettering the Cardinals, not personal squabbles.

No matter how you view that, that’s how a man acts in difficult situations. He says “These are my honest thoughts and feelings, and you can be enough of a man to deal with it appropriately and respond to me honestly.”

If Rolen can’t handle honesty and respond in kind (especially if Tony’s comments about Rolen not even giving him a real explanation for his anger are true), then the responsibility is on Rolen for the difficult situation, and not Tony.

All either man can do is be honest…not pout and try to escape a situation everytime it is not to his liking…as Rolen seems to think is the best option (here AND Phillie).

I hope Rolen responds honestly and without restraint, and then the two can hash it out…like men…instead of avoiding the situation and tip-toeing around it like children.

You know what…Pujols, Carp, and Yadi need to go over to Rolen’s house and have a “sit in” until he gets his head on straight. Let’s see the individuals on the team get involved and get Rolen in line.

I don’t think Tony should have said what he said to the media, I think he should have said it straight to Rolen. But who knows, Scotty R. may not be willing to listen.
I just find this whole situation nuts.

I do agree with Tony. Rolen is wanted, however, he won’t be traded or gotten rid of just because he wants to be. He would be traded for the bettering of the team. The team may be better with Rolen on it though.

As I have said since the beginning of this situation:

A healthy Rolen is a happy one.

After reading many of our previous posts, I respect your opinion on Cardinals matters. But I have to say I disagree with you on this one. TLR going to the media and not only calling out Scott Rolen, but saying that he will not budge on this, Scotty has to…is NOT what I would call being a grownup about it. And just because that’s his honest opnion on it doesn’t make him right.It also doesn’t make it right for him to air out their dirty laundry to the public/media.I wish TLR would have left after last season. Mo screwed up on that, too IMO.We need new leadership.Leadership that leads by example, not G.W. leadership that says “My way or the highway.”

I completely understand your perspective, and believe me, I’ve been there and I don’t think it’s wrong to take your perspective or mine. But, a few points:

1. This situation has already been in the media, and Scott pretending like it’s being handled privately is just wishful thinking. I respect his approach to the game and handling matters internally, but the facts are the facts, and the facts say this is a very public issue. Plus, he is NOT handling it internally. He is holing himself up, walling himself off, and requesting a trade. If he wants it handled internally, then he should do so. Go to Tony, sit down with him, and yell at each other in a room until you can’t yell anymore…THEN start working it out.

2. Tony is the manager. Like it, love it, leave it – he is the manager. It is his job to run the team the way he sees fit…that’s the manager’s job. It is not just to make sure everyone is happy. It’s part of the reason the Cards’ front office hired him – for his opinions and perspective in action.

3. If this was another team, and it was another player and manager, most of us would think that player was just being ridiculous, prideful, and rebellious (especially if they had a record of problems with another team as Scott does). We would most likely think “That guy needs to get in line with his manager and quit causing problems.” Let’s treat Scott and Tony the same.

4. Scott refuses to acknowledge that Tony made the right decision to bench him the times that he did (that upset Scott). Scott wasn’t hitting, Tony benched him and put in Spezio, Spezio hits a game/series critical triple, Scott goes back in the next game, Scott hits like a mad man from then on. IT WAS THE RIGHT DECISION. Despite how upset Scott got, he has to acknowledge that at some point.

Now, it’s not that I don’t think TLR needs to budge a bit…I DO think he does, but Scott has helped put him in a situation that Scott is now unwilling to resolve. He doesn’t want to accept any responsibility for surly actions in front of the media and around the clubhouse. That’s just wrong. Tony is now in a very public position of being asked, as the manager, to completely back down from one of his players who contributed to a difficult situation. Now, Scott has pushed it to the point that it is VERY public and VERY difficult. He needs to step up and confront the issue head-on if he really expects to resolve it.

heymatto, I was writing about the way TLR treated Ozzie Smith in his first year and played Clayton instead of Smith even tho Ozzie utterly outplayed Royce in Spring Training. I don’t think Rolen has anything resembling HoF numbers.

In terms of the recent spat, it started not because TLR benched Rolen, it started because he benched him without giving him a heads up… and then wouldn’t admit that maybe he’d made a mistake. He has done this again and again (he even had a problem with Pujols of all players because of this sort of thing) since being here.

Last, I don’t think it was Rolen who went to the media and said that he’d asked the team to look into trade possibilities when TLR was resigned. From where I sit, Rolen kept it in house and under the radar and it was the new GM and TLR who went public with it.

I’ve had coaches who felt they could never be wrong and, after enough instances of being wrong or making a mis-step and not being willing to man-up to one’s own fallibility, I decided it wasn’t immature to give up on trying to fix the relationship. It only leaves you open to being burned again. Sure Rolen’s pissed off, and perhaps it’d be the right thing for him to offer an olive branch, but I don’t expect it because (while I am not privy to any of the inside dope on any of this) there’s no historical instance suggesting that TLR will accommodate Rolen and seek a middle ground… look what he just said.

It’s obvious though that it isn’t just one man’s fault. There was no communication from EITHER SIDE. Rolen didn’t fess up about his shoulder acting up on him, when everyone knew something was wrong. TLR didn’t go to him and say “I’m gonna give you a break tonight and let your shoulder rest. I think that’s the best move for the team.” Cause ultimately it comes down to that. Baseball is not like basketball where one player can bring his team to very high places. You need 9 guys working together, and harmony isn’t always possible. You have 25 guys on a roster, plus quite a few coaches and a manager, and it is not always possible that you are gonna like everyone.

Thank you for the perspective on this issue. I do see both sides a little clearer,but I also agree with what rudy said about the “new” GM and Tony bringing this issue into the media. They did make it public, not Scotty.He may have been brash or holed himself up or whatever,but he didn’t go to the media and say “They can hire a new manager or I’ll quit.” BUT Tony DID go to the media and say, “If he doesn’t like it, he can quit.” THAT is childish, selfish, egotistical, and lacking in leadership quality.Now I agree that both men could have and should have handled this better,but I have no doubt that Scotty wanted this issue to remain a private one.At the very least he has kept his mouth shut about it in public,which is more than can be said of Tony.To me Tony LaRussa is at fault for making this a public issue. As Rudy said,Scotty asked for a trade in private,not publicly.

“No matter how you view that, that’s how a man acts in difficult situations.”

While true, Kevin, a professional does it under wraps–not for the front page of ESPN, thus killing any deal with him involved because teams may now wait it out until we unload him for low-crop vets with a salary dump. Yes, it was in the media already, but it’s just bad timing. To quote Belle & Sebastian, “Your cover’s blown.” It’s like a spouting couple getting into a shouting match at a wedding–while they’re standing up. It’s like bickering at the office while the CEO is visiting. It’s Scooter Libby ousting CIA agents… Okay, maybe an extreme example there, but it’s tactless, makes you look poor, and hurts the entire team. Everybody knew they didn’t get along, but nobody knew Rolen demanded a trade until TLR ousted it. You just can’t defend it. It was very poor judgement on Tony’s part. I have no care otherwise, but dammit, you just can’t give away all of your secrets to the enemy because some puppy came over and urinated on your light post. Shame on Tony for giving away team information like that. If I were Mo, I’d have a long, hard talk with that guy.


If you honestly think the rest of major league baseball did not know exactly where Rolen and La Russa’s relationship stood before Tony’s press conference, you’re fooling yourself (I say that respectfully). What TLR said did not change Rolen’s trade value or bargaining position one bit.

Also…Come on, guys!!! Do you not read the St. Louis papers??? This is just like the issue with Walt and Lunhow…everyone knew it was there by the way they acted and talked “off the record” when the media was around!!! The same was true of the Rolen issue. Everyone in the St. Louis media, and by extension, the rest of the media, knew what was going on. Think about it…the breaking news in the headlines was not LA RUSSA AND ROLEN DON’T LIKE EACH OTHER…it was that they no longer DENY the issue. This has been public for a long time.

There were no secrets in this situation, zoop!!!

AND…remember, it was MO that finally did not deny the issue and opened it up for fair game in the media. Again, it’s REAL easy for Scott to say “I wanted to handle it internally” when he is doing NOTHING to actually handle it internally. He’s not returning La Russa’s calls, letters, etc. He isn’t interested in handling it internally, he’s only interested in not dealing with it until he can get traded. Wake up!

La Russa is using the media to try and force Scott to deal with the issue. Why do you think La Russa waited until the end of the Winter Meetings to say something? It’s because Mo had already gauged the interest and value for Rolen from other teams and determined he was most likely going to be a Cardinal in 2008. THEN Tony said what he did, I believe, in an effort to say “Okay, Scott is refusing to deal with this issue internally (despite what he says), maybe I can use the media to call him out and force him to deal with it.”

No matter how you want things to be, dealing with something internally DOES NOT mean just keeping it secret and doing nothing! Scott is not making an effort to deal with it…he’s using the “deal with it internally” disguise to keep things secret. Now, I’m sure he doesn’t see it that way, but that’s what’s happening. He hopes to avoid dealing with the issue until he can get traded.

And, you’re right, a professional deals with something internally and quietly. But I ask you, zoop…exactly how is someone supposed to “deal with something” internally if one of the individuals REFUSES to talk to the other one??? It doesn’t work. So, the public forum is the only avenue of communication left. If Scott doesn’t want this public, then man-up and go to Tony and deal with it internally. That may mean cussing him out, or whatever, but do it. Don’t hide until a trade can be made.

The reality is this: Tony knows Scott is going to be a Cardinal in 2008. The current situation is unacceptable. The only way to get Scott to resolve anything is to somehow get him to talk to Tony about it. So, Tony is trying to force Scott to respond in some way without using his agents. Period.

THEN, once they are communicating again, they can figure out how to live with each other.


um…I love you, man🙂

It was no secret that they could not get along, but you, my fine fellow, are kidding yourself if you think interested parties will give up what they would’ve prior to Tony getting loose lipped. Now it’s abundantly clear that they cannot work together, and anyone that wants to spin this little New York-esque ******* contest into a positive is delusional, with all due respect (I hate saying that, fyi… because saying “with all due respect” on the internet is such a cop-out, so I do apologize).

It distracts from a number of things, such as baseball operations (teams know we cannot go into the season with Scotty now, thus we have to deal him for a Brandon Inge-caliber scrub) and most importantly, baseball. It’s bad enough that I have to read about every time Brit and K-Fed go on their period at the Schnucks check-out, I don’t want to hear about about who took whose binky away in my club’s clubhouse. Why do I watch baseball? To watch a guy pitch a ball to a guy with a piece of wood in his hands. Why do I watch CARDINALS baseball, instead of New York baseball? I’m an adult, and I like baseball. I don’t like ******* contests.

I do agree that Tony should have confronted Scotty immediately following the signing. I don’t see how confronting a reporter to tell Scotty how you feel is “manning up” in the least. Sounds like a game of telephone to me, which is not the adult thing to do.

So, in light of the childishness of our manager and third baseman (no, I don’t take sides, although TLR’s utter stupidity and downright treason have forced me to completely root against him until he is gone, regardless of success or failure; this doesn’t make me look up to Rolen more than I would have, however), I recommend that we hire Patty the Receptionist at the local chiropractor to be our GM. She loves to gossip (just like our children, oops, I mean professional millionaire baseball players), and she might be willing to deal a package of Reyes and Garcia for a Hunky Fireman calendar (the best part? it’s a two year contract; it goes all the way until December 2009!).

Scott is a baby and I’m sure Tony was drunk, just give them both another pass! I love how when grown men put on a uniform they are no longer treated like grown men!

well…zoop…I guess we can agree to disagree…God knows I hate sayin’ things about Rolen (man I love watchin’ that guy play baseball!!)…

I will say, in Rolen’s defense, the one thing that upset me about Tony’s remarks was when he said Scott, basically, hasn’t given enough back to the Cardinals. The guy has risked his shoulder health, gave us a championship as much as the Cardinals gave him one, etc. etc….Scott, in my opinion, has nothing to prove as far as what he needs to “give back” to the Cardinals.

Thanks for the discussion, zoop!

I agree completely. I just hope Patty agrees. Lord knows she wants to swing him for that gift certificate to Krispy Kreme. Grumble.

I love all your comments on here. You all are passionate and well-versed in info concerning the cards, but honestly they both need paddled and told to act like men and not spoiled kids. You are never going to work for or with someone you like all the time, both of them need to grow up before this tears the Cards up this spring. GO CARDS!!!

It sounds like Inge may want to leave Detroit now that Miggy is there. What are the chances that the Cards try to make a play at him?

Hey Zoop…read Bernie’s article on Stltoday.com about La Russa vs. Rolen

No thanks on Inge. .230 BA for $19m, most of which the Tigers reportedly refuse to eat? Hahahahahahahahahaha…. No thanks.

I’ll check it out, Kev.

I didn’t realize the huge contract. That’s not worth it.



I live in Michigan, any and all thoughts of Inge are ridiculous… he’s not getting better, he has half of Scotty’s range when Scotty’s hurt and only 2/3rds his arm. Inge isn’t a clutch player and he has a deer-in-the-headlights look to him far too often.

Ymerej, no caps… dude, it’s like screaming.

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