Friday afternoon tidbits: Mulder in, Parisi out, Izzy hurt

Greetings from the home of Joel Goldberg as well as one of the game’s more underappreciated ballparks. Lots of news for you today.

* Mark Mulder has been activated from the DL and is in the bullpen. Mike Parisi has been optioned to Memphis. The bullpen move is considered open-ended for now.

* Jason Isringhausen has a right knee injury. They’re waiting for Paletta to read the MRI before they decide whether to DL him. Izzy himself said they told him he has a strained ligament, a strained tendon and a strain of the knee capsule.

* Ryan Ludwick is batting second, with the hope that hitting in front of Pujols might help him get sorted out. Pujols is at DH once again with Chris Duncan at 1B.



I don’t agree with putting Mark Mulder back in the roster. I know he has the potential but I don’t think he’s shown it. I do however agree with sending Mike Parissi down to Memphis that guy was so unpredictable he was good in the bullpen once they brought him up, and we thought yea hmm maybe this guy ‘s gonna be awsome. But when they put him in the starting rotation he fell apart and still has.

just wanted to say that i bought your book matthew..i’m enjoying it..good stuff

just wanted to say that i bought your book matthew..i’m enjoying it..good stuff

I can’t believe I’m saying this…but I think Mulder is a better LH option out of the pen than either of the warm bodies we throw out there on a daily basis. Although I still think we should find a phantom reason to DL Villone and give Ron Flores a try.

Why give Ron Flores a try? Have you seen his stats?

Why continue to give the ball to Randy Flores? Villone? Mulder? Have you seen their stats? So maybe Ron Flores gets lit up in the bigs. It can’t be any worse than what we currently get from our LH pitchers. The only LH pitcher that makes any sense is Garcia, and for some reason, management doesn’t want to bring him up yet. Oh…and then there’s the option of going with one or no LHP in the bullpen. TLR and Duncan need to revisit whether its really that important to have LH relief pitchers, if the LH relievers’ only qualities are that they raise their opponents’ batting averages.

Yeah, I’ve seen Mulders stats this year in the majors: 0-0, 0.00 ERA. For all you know he can go out there tomorrow and toss a no hitter. I see so many people counting him out when he hasn’t even had the chance to pitch yet.

I hope the Cardinals can begin to string hits together, preferably with less than 2 outs. I also hope the relief pitching situation is resolved. It’s tough when the relievers go out and lose games, but in many cases the run support was lacking.

The only pitching Mulder will see is mop up out of the bullpen and after he gets rocked a couple times doing that he’ll be back on the DL. I hope I’m not right but I don’t think we’ll ever see Mulder start a game for the Cardinals again. The Mulder / Haren trade has been a huge bust!

penniston, man, do I agree with you on the Garcia issue. I have been asking for a month now why they refuse to bring him up and give him a chance. Flores can’t get anyone out. He has walked in the winning runs, can’t get left handers out and has been getting crushed every time they bring him in and still LaRussa, for some reason, has the confidence to keep using him. I say give Garcia a chance. Can he do any worse than the ones they keep bringing up and sending back all of the time? After watching the last two games with Detroit and the four losses against KC, I don’t think we need starting pitching, but someone who can pitch in relief and close a game out. If we would have won the games that have been lost by the so-called closers, we would be in first place!!

I think we need to acquire a big bat. We need someone who can drive in runs. If we score more runs the starters have more room to pitch deeper into games and we won’t have to rely on the bullpen as much. Lets trade for Holliday and sign him long term.

We need bullpen help… for obvious reasons. Get a lefty!

Problem with Garcia: He isn’t on the 40 man roster. It’s very difficult to remove someone on the 40 man if they aren’t injured for a long time (which allows them to be placed on the 60 day DL)

Whats with AP at DH today M? I’d think with a ground ball pitcher like Looper you’d want the best defense possible, and Pujols is one of the top 3 defensive first basemen in baseball.

You have to wonder just how “in” Mulder really is, if he didn’t appear today when the team had a 5-run lead. What with the low-leverage situation and a tired pen, this should have been a good time to see just what he’s got — if he’s got anything at all.

I think the wind was whipping up a little too much. The Mets have a couple of lefties in their lineup, or at least switch hitters that are better at the left side, so he may get action then.

Thing is, if you bring Garcia in as a LH reliever for much time at all, then you risk hurting his “starting pitcher” conditioning…and with the way our starters have been getting injured lately, I think management sees Garcia as a reinforcement option if we lose a starter for good. You could very well see Garcia come up as a starter in August…but not if you bring him up as a reliever for an extended period of time, now. Oh…and by the way…check out Garcia’s most recent performances…the guy is not exactly shutting hitters down everytime out…he needs as much time in AAA as the organization can give him to polish up. Remember, the guy was pitching to AA hitters just a few months ago.

Also…Mulder…I watched him pitch…he DOES have the stuff to get MLB hitters out, now. The question is, can he do it for several innings and for a long period of time and multiple times through the order…none of which is an issue for a LH reliever. So the move makes sense.

Hey M, any updates on Waino? When are they expecting him back, or at least on a rehab assignment?

With all that is going on with starters and the bullpen, why is there no mention of Wainwrights possible return? Is he out indefinitely?

Thank god they sent Parisi back to Memphis. He is absolutely horrible! They should release him.

Give Parisi a bit of a break, this was his first year facing big league hitters and pitched like….a rookie. He needs time yet.

Wainwright they are looking around the break, a little before, a little after, for his return.

For real! Some of you on here just rip a guy to shreds as soon as he starts to struggle. A couple months ago people were praising Mike Parisi. Talk about haters! I know it’s a “What have you done for me lately” attitude, and I think it’s disgusting.
On a separate note, regarding a previous conversation about booing players, I heard Brad Lidge say the other day that, “I understand that you’re gonna get cheered when you’re doing well, and booed when you’re not. And I have no problem with that.” So all of you who say it’s rude or unclassy, I say stop being so sensative. It’s life as a professional athlete. And I’m sorry, but if Izzy can’t take it then perhaps he should find another job!!!

chill out dude…

I was ticked at Parisi the other day because he walked a batter with the bases loaded to lose the game. I think he has talent, but also issues. He’ll be okay, but there is no excuse for walking a guy in that situation. Now, do I hate the guy? No…but he shouldn’t be up here right now…he hasn’t shown the mental makeup to be in the situations we need him to pitch in…that’s it.

Regarding booing…think what you will…but for me, it’s not a sensitivity issue…it’s just classless, pointless, and irritating. As mad as I was at Parisi, I would not have booed him…again…not to get this conversation started again…what the hell does it accomplish?

Do you think you actually change something? Do you think your boo actually has an impact? Or is your goal simply to “rip a guy to shreds as soon as he starts to struggle”? Are you misguided enough to actually think it’s a good idea to add insult to injury, kick a guy when he’s down, etc. for no apparent reason?

All the people who want to defend booing your hometown players for poor play/execution when obviously the effort is there have YET to provide ONE SINGLE SOLITARY reason for booing…not ONE benefit to it…other than to satisfy your own selfish desire to attack a player who is feeling the loss/mistake much more than you do…the person who gets to boo and then go home and sit on your couch watching Sportscenter highlights for the rest of the night.

Give it a rest, man…it’s old.

Kev. Man I never thought I’d say anything bad about you, but all that insulting was unnecessary. First of all, YOU are NOT the only one to dog Parisi. So don’t take it so personally. OK? And 2, all of your opinions about booing are just that OPINIONS. I gave mine, and I disagree with you PERIOD I’m not attacking you about it, but I am going to say that you don’t have the right to judge those who chose to boo. It is an old subject, but I’m not going to “give it a rest”. Damn man. “what the hell does it accomplish?” “Do you think you actually change something?” ” Do you think your boo actually has an impact?” Why do I have to justify it to YOU? Why does it have to have an immediate impact?
It expresses disappointment and frustration. And as long as these guys are getting paid millions per year, they’re gonna have to endure it. I don’t feel a bit sorry for them. We need to just agrre to disagree and not be judgmental or rude to those who disagree with you.

Can we please let the conversation go? I think that we’ve exhausted its use long ago.

Send Dunc down to the minors!!! Also, I don’t know why the Cards waited this long to pitch Mulder, but let’s hope it turns out good!

It’s rare that you hear people raving to send down a guy that had hit a two run homer in the most recent game. Maybe it’s a sign that he’s coming around.

Yeah. We can let that conversation go, if it really hurts you so much to discuss a still relevant issue. And obviously no one here wants to listen to other people’s opinions without getting all fired up and insulting folks. By the way, I don’t boo players EVER. But I do stand up for others’ right and, to me, responsibility to boo players who don’t perform up to expectations. Afterall the fans do pay their salaries, which are WAY exorbitant!

I know that it’s an issue, I’m not denying it. But I do know some people on here will blow it way out of proportion and that accomplishes nothing but M coming and telling us to settle down. I was just cutting out the middle man.

It looks like I spoke too soon about an update on Waino, as it is now on the StLCards site. I didn’t realize it was already being planned, but thanks for the update! Tell Lee he has been doing an excellent job!

slforre…hey, man…wasn’t my intention to insult you at all…but don’t expect to come out with passion in a post and not get it back. Go back and read your post that I responded to…full of unchecked passion…I like that…I like getting in discussions like that because it means we can both “go off” in a way that doesn’t assume insult is intended. Don’t forget that…

I completely understand it is just my opinion…and I’m okay with that. I wasn’t aiming the post at just you, but you did include me as your audience when you posted so I responded in kind. I don’t take anything on here personally…seriously. I respect your opinions and your passion…you want to boo, who am I to stop you? But as passionate as you feel about your right to boo, remember that I feel just as passionate about not booing. Allow me the same room and respect you expect back.

You felt it necessary to comment directly to those of us who are against it…I felt it necessary to respond directly to you, then.

If words in my post like “selfish desire” and “misguided” offended you, then I’ll give you that. I really am sorry, man. I really did not write those words with the intention of attacking and/or insulting you…I only meant to add a level of tone, I think. As for the questions that you took offense to (or maybe you simply took offense to the fact that I questioned you? not sure…), they were exactly that…questions I was looking for answers to…if you don’t want to answer them, that’s fine. At no time…ever…did I say ANYONE had to justify anything to me…that would be ridiculous.

Don’t take my posts so personally, dude. It’s just a post.


You mentioned another topic later that I think is interesting, to a point, to discuss…players’ salaries. I completely agree they are ridiculous…but I was thinking the other day…what if we didn’t pay those salaries? And I think the short answer is…we wouldn’t be watching the best players anymore. We would get the most passionate, committed, hardest-working players sure…but not the best. Those players would take the opportunity to go get their money in another sport that would be willing to pay them the big bucks.

My high school football team used to go to the playoffs and win state championships all the time (it seemed like), but they were horrible when i was there in the 90’s….my brother, who was there when they were good, made an interesting and simple point. “Your best athletes are walkin’ the halls.” Basically, kids in high school no longer view high school football as “worth it,” so the best athletes either don’t play or play something else.

I think something similar could happen to baseball if the money – that the owners are going to make regardless of player salaries because the market says we WILL pay it – didn’t go to the players. Many of them could easily go for another sport…not all…but the talent pool would certainly be reduced.

Anyway….I don’t know if any of that is true or if I just sound stupid, but it was a thought.

Second guessing TLR for using both LH relievers against the Mets Monday night. What if he needs a lefty tonight? I reallt doubt that Mulder is ready to pitch on consecutive days. I realize that it was not a pressure situation, but why not use a RH? Cards have more RH to chose from.
Probably not good to burn both LHs when there were other options.

Thompson was out of the question last night with the lefty heavy part of the lineup coming up for the Mets. After Sunday K-Mac, Izzy, Perez and Franklin had been used for an inning plus each (at least came out in multiple innings, meaning multiple warmups), and had been used to an extent on the road trip. So who does that leave? You play to win today’s game, worry about tomorrow when it comes.

Who is to say that Mulder can’t throw on back to back days? There’s really only one way to find out, and that’s for him to try it.

Actually the top of the Mets order was up and 3 of the first 4 hitters are switch hitters and David Wright, a RH being the other. So why not Thompson? Or why not Thompson in the 8th and Mulder in the 9th? Why burn both lefties when the Cars were ahead by 6 runs? It’s not like it was a critical situation where you wanted a lefty pitcher to get a lefty batter out. But then I don’t get paid the big bucks to make those decisions.

The switch hitters had been facing Lohse, a righty, all night, so in an effort to disrupt them, he went with Villone, a lefty. Also, all 3 of the switch hitters are worse against lefties. Beltran is hitting .260 (against .264 off of righties), Castillo is hitting .234 off of lefties (.272 off of righties) and Reyes is hitting .270 off of lefties (.301 off of righties).

No Kev that doesn’t sound stupid at all. It makes all the sense in the world. And don’t get me wrong, I have no disillusions about salaries are ever going to go down. Those players do deserve their share of any revenue created by their talent and their image. I was just saying that they are going to have to deal with things like booing, and I don’t think any of them should consider that classless. It’s not about being classy. It’s about venting frustration at those who under perform in relation to their salary. Now THAT is where I can see an argument. Say, for a guy like Todd Wellemeyer. He is doing far better than anyone expected, and he is doing it for much less money. So when he or Parisi or Boggs start to struggle, I can’t justify booing those guys or ripping them to shreds. On the other hand a guy like Kip Wells wasn’t pitching as well as he should have, based on what he was being paid. So he deserved to hear the boo birds, in my opinion. But like I said that is just my opinion and certainly not everyone agrees with that. And that’s fine. I just don’t like for those who disagree to try to make the other side feel like less of a fan for doing what they think is right.

By the way, let me ask you this. Do you think it would be a good idea to move to contracts that would pay based on the prior year’s performance? For instance, when a guy has a good season or part of one a good season, in Jeff Weaver’s case, he absolutely should be compensated. But one year or two months of good performance shouldn’t warrant a multi-year deal worth multi-millions of dollars. It should warrant a good contract for the NEXT YEAR. If a team wants to sign a guy like that long term, that’s fine. But the salary should be based on performance each year. Not based on what they did for 2 months. Those kinds of contracts seem very unfair to teams, because there is no way to know if that person is going to continue to perform. If he doesn’t he still gets the money, minus incentives. That has GOT to be costing teams millions of dollars in dead money.

Also I am sorry Kevin. I didn’t mean for that first post to have a lot of passion. I guess I didn’t realize how my words would be read. That’s my bad. You’re right. And you’re a good person to talk with. I appreciate that.

I agree with you on the contracts SLF. Guys like Aaron Rowand getting big contracts like that after a big offensive season are hurting teams and hurting young players in farm systems. But the union is WAY too strong, and the one thing they rarely bend on are contracts.

Kevin, you bring up a good point about contracts. We have the best baseball and football players, but not soccer players, in the world, because baseball and football pays so well, and soccer doesn’t. I think this is a big reason why we don’t contend very well in world soccer tournaments (although we are getting better), because our best athletes (as a whole) are not becoming soccer players, but baseball or football players, because as the trend with our capitalist economy goes, that’s where the money is.
This is also the reason that even though we hate the prices of doctors, they need to make that kind of money as it entices the brightest minds of our nation to become doctors and for the health of our nation we need our brightest minds to be doctors. As a nation we love baseball and football and want to watch the best there is. For this reason, baseball and football players will and kind of need to be paid extraordinarily well, or our best athletes will look elsewhere.

I apologize if that got political at all, as that was not the point, but I would love to here all of your opinions on this.


slforre…it’s all good…

Regarding your question: I think there is some logic to that train of thought (paying based on last year’s performance), but we still have to remember a few things. Players are just like the rest of us…this is their job, their career. They should be able to count on some form of security in the future. Can you imagine going into your job every day and wondering what your salary will be next year? Sure, you are employed only as long as you do your job well…but your pay scale, for most people, is never in question. These players have things like homes and cars, etc., and you can’t plan any sort of life without some sort of expectation regarding your pay scale. Think about how much of your life (type of home, type of car, type of neighborhood, etc.) exists the way it does BECAUSE you know what you will be making next year (unless you lose your job).

Also, we have to keep in mind that players are going to have down years. I’m a firm believer that a player should not be punished financially for having 1 or 2 down years…it’s just going to happen. This is a hard game to play, especially day to day and year to year. Plus, where do you draw the line? If Albert Pujols hits .325 one year and hits 29 HRs with 89 RBIs, is that enough to warrant a pay cut because we’ve come to expect more from him?

Even more to consider, how do you measure the intangibles of a teammate? Many would argue that guys like Pujols, Edgar Renteria, and Mike Matheny are worth more than even their numbers suggest because of their worth in the club house. And how do you agree on a standard set of stats? Does pitcher ERA count for a catcher who calls a good game? Should a catcher be punished financially because the team saddled him with poor pitching talent? Should a catcher that calls a great game be rewarded because Wainwright and Carp throw sub 4 ERAs?

I think paying based on last year’s performance is a dangerous and unreliable practice…however, I could see a bit more of a bonus program for reaching certain milestones having a positive effect. For example, if a player makes a base of 2.5 million, could we give him 4 million if he hits 15% over his career batting avg.? HR totals? etc.? Again, that type of contract structuring is counter-intuative to what you actually want…selfless, team-oriented players. Imagine a situation where a player ignores a sacrifice bunt sign in a critical game because he needs his average to get above .300 so he can get his bonus (or just imagine a situation where fans THINK he did because he has that type of contract)…it tastes a bit like the risk associated with gambling in baseball. But, could a bonus program that is TEAM-oriented work? Maybe…imagine a situation where every player on the team is given a base salary according to their individual stats, status, etc. but all of the players get a certain percentage bonus if the team plays above .500, finishes first, finishes second, etc. but no bonus if they are under .500, don’t make the playoffs, etc. Could be interesting (i mean separate from the standard bonuses…these imaginary bonus programs would be designed to get the players payed according to their estimated market value if they play to their potential)…

All in all, I don’t think the problem is primarily with the players…the only people who can truly police the sport is general management and ownership. The main problem with industries like baseball is that every player, coach, and manager has millions of bosses screaming for immediate results – the fans. And team management feels enormous pressure to make the big signings, and make them long-term so they don’t end up paying even more in the future. The long-term, insanely expensive contract situation is based off the market, yes…starting pitchers with mediocre talent are payed like 40-HR cleanup hitters for one simple reason…if that team doesn’t do it, someone else will…and you don’t want to face your fans and try to explain why you wouldn’t do it.

If the salaries and long-term contracts are going to get better, it has to be because management and ownership steps up and says, collectively, NO to those types of high-risk contracts. I don’t think paying based on last year’s performance is the answer.

P.S. Remember, Jeff Weaver’s situation is actually a good example of the problems in baseball…Weaver was offered 2 years with St. Louis at fair money…but he turned it down to play 1 year in the hopes of scoring a big, long-term contract after a successful performance. Weaver wanting to take advantage of the current practice of awarding long-term contracts for just 1 good year is EXACTLY the problem…and that type of thinking could have very well ended his career in Major League Baseball.

Another way to look at it though is if teams are willing to pay that kind of money, then they reap what they sow. You want to give players that have injury histories a long term mega deal? Fine, but don’t start whining when they get hurt for a year or two.

As I write this, I realize the irony of the fact that we signed Carp long term, but I don’t care.

yeah…but I agreed with the Carp signing because, if you compare it to other pitchers in the league, we got a discount. You can’t predict injuries, nor should you try unless all signs point to a breakdown, but signing a guy like Carp to a long-term, discounted contract is good baseball to me…I think you could look at Pujols similarly…I would absolutely be in favor of a life-time contract for him…but remember, he is going to miss most or all of a season soon with surgery. Still worth it.

Plus…Carp, despite arm surgeries, is the picture of durability and effectiveness. Complete games, innings eater, cy young potential and winner, efficient, doesn’t rely on strike outs, good and efficient motion…all signs point to long-term contract…contrast him with Dontrelle Willis…not the same at all…DW was a BAD long-term signing…what were they thinking???

I didn’t say I disagreed, just admitting that there was some irony with what I was saying. I love Chris Carpenter, want him to pitch here forever, retire here and if he recovers well, and pitches another 10 seasons and gets a couple more CYA, he could have an outside chance at Cooperstown. Not likely at this point, but it is nice to dream about.

As far as Motown signing Willis long term, they gave up the future to get him, may as well have him around for the future. Maybe Leyland will snap something in Willis’ head and get him to change his motion, otherwise he’ll blow his shoulder out soon.

Man Kev, you’re absolutely right. I guess I never thought of it in depth that way.Just to put another idea out there…what if they could pay a base salary that gradually increased each year (like cost of living but at a much higher rate,obviously), depending on things such as at-bats, games played, and years with team rather than stats, and then you could add bonuses for reaching certain stats like team wins, reaching the playoffs, advancing in Playoffs, All-Star appearances, etc. Because you’re right, you can’t really penalize guys like Pujols for having a “down” year by his standards.

Hmmm…I guess something like that could work…I think what you’re going for is something more akin to our own jobs where merit and annual increases/raises are the norm. You would be saying to players, “Look…if you do your job, you’re going to get a standard percentage raise, but if you do it well, then you will get a larger percentage. If you do it EXTREMELY well, then you will get ‘promoted’ to a higher pay scale.”

In that case, in order to determine base salaries, you would have to determine and setup pay scales and ranges by establishing categories for players. You would then need to rate the player. For example, if you use a 1 – 10 scale, scale 1 players would earn between 300,000 and 400,000. Scale 2 would get 400 – 500,000; scale 3 would get 500 – 600,000 and so on and so on until you reach an income ceiling in scale 10. Then, if a player is rated a scale 2 player, he gets the minimum and goes up from there. Perhaps all rookies could automatically be scale 1 players. Then, based on a players performance year to year, they would be up for promotion to higher scales. And, to keep control of overall cost, you could have a limited number of spots in each scale (like having a limited number of management spots available). Maybe you only have 15 scale 10 players in all of baseball, and until one retires, no one else can be promoted to that level…and on and on…

Here’s the problem with a plan like that…someone has to determine the scale. If it is the teams that say “We’ll make you a scale 8 if you play with us,” then you’re right back where you started with teams competing by paying more than another team is willing to pay. So, you would have to allow MLB to classify all players, similar to arbitration hearings. If MLB determined a player’s scale, they would be classified without partiality or competition. And then you run into the real problem…if you do that, you kill free agency because there is zero financial incentive for a player to ever leave a team. There is zero hope of earning a significant amount more by switching teams because they would still be paid as a scale X player.

And now you begin to see why we have the current pay system that we do in baseball…allows for flexibility for team payrolls which is necessary to adjust for market area, fanbase, etc….allows for greater earning potential by players which is necessary to get the best athletes playing baseball…etc.

Basically, you also have to remember that any plan you come up with is also going to have to be approved by EVERY team and owner as well as the Players’ Association…and that kind of agreement rarely happens. If you didn’t get all teams to approve and adopt the plan, then all players would want to play for the few teams that still paid them whatever they wanted in long-term deals, and your team would…effectively…stink with sub-standard players left over from the bargain bin…kind of like the current system if you are unwilling to pay high salaries.

Bottom line, the only way the pay system is going to get better, I think (and short of actually instituting a salary cap, which I am not in favor of) is if all of the owners band together and refuse to pay such extreme prices for such insanely long-term deals…and getting that many wealthy people used to getting their own way to submit to a collective and community plan can be next to impossible…especially if just one of them sees opportunity in doing the opposite.

I see what you mean. All of that is going to be the straw at breaks the camel’s back, and cause baseball to play second fiddle to the NFL and maybe even the NBA. A few things I’d like to say about it, though.
1.) “There is zero hope of earning a significant amount more by switching teams because they would still be paid as a scale X player.”–THAT would be a positive to me. I don’t like the idea of players leaving a team simply for more money. See Edgar Renteria.
2.) “If it is the teams that say “We’ll make you a scale 8 if you play with us,” then you’re right back where you started with teams competing by paying more than another team is willing to pay.”–I THINK here is where you say a player can’t be on a higher scale until he gets to so many years of MLB service, like the pension plan does. It kicks in after, what, 10 years? You could say, ok, you’re eligible to move up in pay scale each year, but the amount will be determined by years of service. And if you want to leave you can only make so much more. As you said, NOT a significant amount more for switching teams.
3.) “if you do that, you kill free agency because there is zero financial incentive for a player to ever leave a team.”–
I don’t have a problem with killing free agencey. I think it has had as much of a negative impact on the game as a positive. Again, I hate the idea of giving financial incentive to lure a player away from another team. A player should only want to leave a team, in my opnion, to be on a winner or maybe to live closer to home or something along those lines. Again see Edgar Renteria for example.
Crap I gotta get back to work. We’ll talk about it more later.

This is madness. Madness? THIS IS SPARTA!!!!


Yeah, all in all, I’m with you on the free agency thing and switching for money concept…I hate it. I hate that one of these days, Albert Pujols could be a Yankee because New York is willing to pay him major cash to be the DH and St. Louis has some up and coming stud to play first base. *shudder*

But…I think free agency has it’s uses. I also hate the idea of being stuck with the same team for years. Most fans say they hate free agency…they would rather, like you and I, see guys like Edgar and Albert stay Cardinals for a LONG time…but that’s what most fans mean when they say they hate free agency…they hate it when the players they LIKE depart. But what about the players they don’t like or filling holes?

Long story short, fairly restrained free agency and related practices have their purpose…it allows you to fix areas of deficiency on your ball club…otherwise, you’re stuck with a mediocre team for years at a time.

Limited free agency allows you to freshen your team and address issues each and every year…not just every 5 or 10 when your resident second baseman retires or isn’t wanted anymore.

But I’m with ya, man…Albert Pujols, in my opinion, should be offered a life-time contract.

Question, if you’re the Yankees and you want Albert Pujols, why in the heck would you put one of the best defensive 1st baseman’s in the game as the DH? Especially when Albert dislikes being the DH. And I think Albert said he’s like to stay a member of the Cardinals for the rest of career, unless the Cardinals decide to let him go via free agency, trade, etc.

um…I was referring to a day when he’s much older, at the end of his career, his knees or whatever are shot…etc. Even Pujols is going to hit a time in his life when his body just isn’t the same.

Oh, and I’m sure Albert does want to stay a Cardinal for the rest of his life, but will the organization’s management at that time want to keep him for a certain price tag if they have a young, powerful replacement ready and waiting to take over?

All kinds of things can happen given enough time…My point is just that Larry Walker was Colorado’s main man…Scott Rolen loved St. Louis and, TLR aside, I think he really saw himself as a Cardinal until he retired…Mike Sweeney was KC’s resident stud but got to a point where his body couldn’t keep him in the game long enough to avoid a DH role…and on and on and on…anything can happen…

My point was just to say that Albert could, for any number of reasons, end up playing for a different team at the tail end of his career…do I think it’s likely? No…but it is absolutely possible.

It is possible. But I don’t see the Cardinals letting him go, unless he has two back to back bad years. If he’s still hitting 30 + HR’s and driving in 100 + RBI’s, I’d keep him.

agreed…and the possibility/idea of Pujols leaving the Cardinals at some point was only a minor analogy in discussing a much different point.

The possibility/idea of Pujols leaving the Cardinals at some point makes me sad.

also agreed…dude…can you imagine it?? *shudder*

It sickens me to think that Albert would EVER wear pinstripes or any other uniform for that matter. But I see it as almost inevitable…unless things change drastically by the time AP gets to be an old ballplayer. The Cardinals organization, especially with TLR at the helm, have never paid their aging stars. It seems to me they’d prefer to see them move on so they can replace them with cheap up-and-comers. Think of all the fan favs who have been traded when their market value was higher than the organization wanted to spend…Vince Coleman, Willie McGee (even though he came back to STL), Terry Pendleton, John Tudor, Mike Matheny, John Mabry, Edgar Renteria, Placido Polanco…the list goes on. Then you can throw in guys who contributed and were then traded…Fernando Vina, Tony womack, Joe McEwing, Woody Williams, So Taguchi, Abraham Nunez…Now, I’m not saying I expect them to never trade players, but we have a higher turnover rate than a telemarketing call center. I’d LOVE to see the return of loyalty in baseball.

yeah…as long as the loyalty goes both ways…one-sided loyalty is how we ended up paying 2 million to Jim Edmonds while he plays for the Cubs after requesting a trade to leave the Cardinals.

I didn’t get to see all those players play that you mentioned, because I haven’t been watching baseball my entire life. But of those players mentioned, the only one I would have kept was Edgar Renteria. The others weren’t the best of performers.

When Mike Matheny left, it hurt…not just the fans, but the players…that man was a warrior…and one of the best defensive catchers I’ve ever seen…and the man who helped Yadi become who he is and adjust to baseball on this level, even though he knew Yadi was his replacement.

Losing him hurt…

I didn’t get to see Matheny play, as I mentioned I have been watching baseball my entire life, nor have I been watching it for that long. I got interested after 2004.

I remember Matheny on a record setting streak of games without an error…then, he made an error…the next day, he was there incredibly early working on his defense for hours. Guy was awesome.

Double M was a great defensive catcher and a big leader for the clubhouse. He helped us get to a world series and the playoffs for many years. But I am glad we have Yaddy. I think when all is done, Molina may be a better catcher on all sides than Matheny.

No one may reven read this. But my greatest memories of Mike Matheny were his plays at the plate. NO MAN could run him over with enough force to make him drop the ball. You just couldn’t do it. He’d get the ball, get low, and take your best shot. Then he’d come up with the ball, and maybe a bloody nose or worse. But you’d be out if the throw was there. No doubt about it.
And real quick, I don’t think one-sided loyalty is what lead Jimmy to ask for a trade. It was the jerk in the clubhouse with #10 on his uni.

hehe…I hear you on the Matheny thing, man…

And…that’s not what I meant by one-sided loyalty…

I meant that the Team showed loyalty to Edmonds by giving him the contract, then Edmonds showed no loyalty by requesting a trade, and boom…we were suddenly in a situation where we are paying him 2 mill to play for the Cubs because we showed him loyalty and he showed none to us.

The first trade has been made, and for sure the Cards were not even mentioned. This trade has put the Brewers in a position to go after the Cubs, at least to put them in the position to win the wild card. Now the Cubs are going to make some moves too. What in the he– is wrong with Moziliak or whatever his name is? You never hear the Cards mentioned in any trade rumors and it infuriates me to know they are just going to stand pat and think they have a chance to make the playoffs. It will be just like when Jocketty was there. They will wait until all of the top players are taken and then they will sign a player or two who is 38-40 years old and ready to retire. What kind of GM is that? At least the Brewers and Cubs are trying to give their fans a winner. What are the Cardinals doing–nothing!!!

I see what you mean totally. But I think the dynamic of upper management in St. Louis was not one of cohesiveness and that led to the break down of the relationship there. Jocketty was the one pushing for Edmonds to get a 2 year deal, so he could retire a Cardinal. That’s what I read. But then Jocketty was let go and La Russa was allowed to go about his ways of running off veterens who still want to play. So instead of finishing his career happy and in St.Louis, he had to choose between being miserable in St.louis under LaRussa or actually having fun in his last year or two and leaving the place he preferred to play. Obviously one-sided loyalty wouldn’t ever work, and the lack of trust is a big reason why the loyalty is gone in baseball. The owners don’t trust players or their agents, and the players don’t trust the owners or upper management to give them a fair deal. The player’s union is too powerful, and the league has had terrible leadership since Selig took over.

Amen to everything you said…except the part about the evil Tony La Russa🙂

Part of the thing with Edmonds is that we had a surplus of outfielders, Edmonds was not going to be guaranteed everyday playing time (everyone knew it, including Edmonds) and was owed too much money to be a bench player while we have a lot of young talent ready to go. The pitcher’s park that is BS3 was not as friendly to Jim’s offense as Wrigley is, so this was the best of both worlds.

Heh heh heh…..I know I don’t give that guy any breaks. And maybe I’m not fair to him, but I don’t care because I have no respect whatsoever for him. He lost my respect beginning on day one, with the way he mishandled Ozzie’s last year. Then he continued to lose respect with his treatment of guys like Steve Kline, Ray King, Scott Rolen, and most recently Jimmy Edmonds. He may be a good manager. I mean you can’t argue with the results. But the way he goes about it is what I have a problem with. Tony la Russa puts me in mind of what I would see as the exact opposite of, say, Phil Jackson. Phil can take a group of star players, and make them a team of star players. La Russa can only work with one or two stars on his teams. He needs a bunch of young guys to boss around and not complain about playing time. He can’t lead a team of excellent players, only a squad full of no names with MAYBE a star player or two.

Uh…wouldn’t you consider a team with Eckersley, McGwire, Canseco, Henderson, Walt Weiss (who was a RotY the year they won the series) and Dave Stewart is filled with stars? And he took the A’s to 3 straight WS berths and a WS title back in the 1980s.

That team is an exception, and so is the 2004 Cardinal team. But he lost two of those three W.S. and lost the one in ’06. All sweeps! And the real legitamate stars on that 90s A’s team were Eckersley and Henderson. Canseco was a bottle rocket, for the most part, aided by performance enhancers. Walt Weiss was much the same, probably not enhanced. McGwire was a phenom, also aided by enhancers most likely, and he really had his best years starting after returning from injury shortly before being traded to St.Louis. You can make an argument for Dave Stewart, I guess, but he was traded to Toronto toward the end of his career. In fact all of the guys you mentioned were traded toward the end of their careers.

dude…I have very little respect for Phil Jackson…that guy’s a loon.

I can see why. But you should understand where I’m coming from then. You’re right, Jackson is a weirdo. La Russa is a huge jerk. They both know how to win, but both have severe shortcomings in personable appeal. Hence the reason so many people in St.Louis are ready to see him leave! He has that “my way or the highway” attitude, and I’d LOVE to see him hit the highway!!

Yeah…you’re right…Jackson is a perfect example…I can’t stand him, but HATED it when he left my Bulls…would love to have him coach my team because he wins…even though I can’t stand him…I would rather have a coach that wins than anything else.

I can honestly say that I don’t see it that way. Of course I’d rather see my team win rather than lose. But we’ve had several managers who won, and none of them were as stand off-ish as La Russa. At least not publicly. Maybe behind closed doors those managers would rip into a player, but never publicly with the intent of embarrassment. Cause no matter what La Russa says now, his comments over the winter about Rolen would embarrass any player. I can’t imagine ANYBODY wanting to play for a manager after that. And I think it’s foolish to believe that players currently in St.Louis haven’t taken notice of LaRussa’s tendencies. I think it’s much more reasonable to think that many have noticed his mouth, and some likely feel like they are walking on eggshells. Since not every player has the ability to demand a trade, they just sit quietly, suck it up, and hope they don’t get on his bad side.

Milwaukee gets Sabathia, the Cubs get Harden. It seems that other teams can get whomever they want anytime they want, but the Cardinals just sit and do nothing to improve themselves. What do they pay their GM for, just to sit in his private box and eat and drink and watch the games? Why isn’t he beating the bushes looking for a deal or two to improve their chances of making the playoffs this year? I know he could make a deal to get a hitter or two. Why won’t he do it? I know the trading deadline is July 31, but why does he have to wait until then. The Brewers and Cubs didn’t wait. If they don’t get someone to improve their hitting, they won’t make the playoffs. The pitching has been very good, but they need someone who can hit and help Albert and Ankiel. Hopefull the GM knows that too and will get busy and make a deal or two.

and you know he’s NOT beating the bushes because….?

Are you Johnny Mo’s secretary and we don’t know it???? Crafty, sneaky devil, you…(just messin’ with ya…don’t get all ticked off)

The Brewers rented C.C. for this year and gave up quite a bit to do it…we have no desire to rent a player, and really no reason to…so we shouldn’t make that kind of deal.

The Cubs made a better deal, in my opinion, because they may have the ability to sign Harden to a long-term deal. The Cards already have two outstanding pitchers in Waino and Carp locked up long-term…if Mo is to be believed (and I’m not sure he is…VERY optimistic), then both of them will be back early August. That is around the same time period a trade deadline acquisition would be available to pitch/play. We get them, no need for starting pitchers. And as long as we have them under contract, I think it’s nuts to get another high-priced pitcher.

Now, we COULD use a reliever…and we COULD use an impact bat at the right price…but who you gonna’ get, because I can assure you, guy’s like Matt Holliday are NOT the right price.

You don’t make knee jerk reactions…I can see the logic in not making ANY moves this season…although I REALLY want a lefty reliever…and if that is the case, then you better make damn sure you make the RIGHT move if you DO make a move at all. And sometimes the right move takes time.

You don’t know if Milwaukee will sign Sabathia to a long term contract or not. Someone will, why not the Brewers? You seem to be under the impression that I want the Cards to trade for a pitcher. I don’t think I said that. I said they need to get a hitter or two. How do you know that they can’t meet the price for Holliday. You’re not Mo. himself, are you? You have to give up prospects in order to get a proven player and you don’t know if a prospect will pan out ot not, so if you can get a proven player who can help you now and in the future, then I say give up the prospects! The Cards have had no-miss prospects in the past. Does Rick Ankiel(pitcher) ring a bell? Well, he didn’t pan out, did he, but thank God, he didn’t give up, but there is only one like him and that is him.

Is it asking too much just to hear that the Cardinals are trying to make a trade in order to improve this year’s team?? Why wait and keep everthing secret.?? Let us fans know. It would make us feel a lot better.

We need to have Kyle McClellan become a lefty specialist… leftys are batting I think .180 against him and rightys are at .306. So we have two lefty specialists in the bull pen now…🙂 j/k


I agree with Kevin in saying we don’t need to make a huge move right now. I watched those two deals go down with Milwaukee and Chicago as did everyone else. But the whole time I was thinking, “The Cards won’t make a move, but it’s probably best because if they did, it would be a reactionary move. And those almost never pan out.” And let’s look at the moves. As Kevin said, C.C. is a rented player. No we don’t KNOW that the Brewers won’t resign him, but we do know that they can’t resign him AND Ben Sheets, who is a free agent at the end of the year. So either way this was a deal HOPING for an immediate return. And if they don’t win this year, where does it leave the Brewers??? I think we all know.
And Rich Harden is a better deal IF he stays healthy. The guy has been on the DL 6 times in 6 years, an we all know the history of Chicago pitchers and injuries. SO both deals are average at best in the short term, and questionable at best in the long term.
That’s my view.

As far as our offense is concerned, I think a lot depends on Ludwick’s performance for the next couple of weeks. He’s an unproven player, but he’s a huge part of why this team is even in contention. If he starts hitting again (the early returns are good – homeruns in back-to-back games), then we probably don’t need another bat. Remember, our offense has been better than average this year. It’s the bullpen that’s been the culprit. I do think Mo is waiting to see what happens with his team this month. For the first time in recent memory, we have a good crop of prospects, and I don’t want to see the Cardinals jump the gun on a trade.

I still would like to see a high average bat get acquired… I dont necessarily want a high power guy because most of the time they are streaky, but 36 of the games this year we have scored 3 or less runs… IDK out of those games what the average LOB was but I watch almost all the games (gotta love DIRECTV) and if memory serves me correctly we have left a lot on base in the last 2 months… April and the first part of May they were phenomenal at not leaving guys on, but it seems we have guys not streaking at the same time, so a high average guy would be great.

I would just like to go on record as saying I am 100% against dudes streaking at the games…

I second that. LOL!!!

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