Deadline passes quietly

Just got confirmation from Mozeliak that nothing got done before the Deadline.

-M.

137 Comments

I for one am not disappointed

Well… Wainwright it is up to you to bolster our starting rotation and in turn bolster our bullpen… Izzy I hope you worked everything out…

I tried to post this earlier on the previous post but was unable do to problems on my end… sorry for the length… but it’s my view of things…
No Barry, No Manny, Holliday and Fuentes probably isnt going to happen… We are picking up a quality starting pitcher at the deadline… Carpenter and WW should be back soon… thats 2 big acquistions that we have been without for a while now. They will help smooth out the bullpen by eating innings. Maybe not at first… but give it a couple weeks… I would be supprised to see Carp go 6 his next outing… as for an impact bat… if there’s not one out there then there’s not one out there. I just do see anything out there better to deal for than what we have… if that means we continue to play better at 10 games or so above 500 so be it… nothing out there is going to make us any better… we just have to show up when we play the cubs. WE BEAT THE TEAMS WE’RE SUPPOSED TO!!( recently padres and braves) Now we just have to show that when it comes down to the wire that we can beat teams that right up there with us and maybe not supposed to. and recently we havent. (brewers and mets).

It is a little disappointing that they did nothing to improve the bullpen. I understand that the guys they have need to perform and they are giving Izzy one last chance to close games. But, the bullpen has been such a mess that virtually any move would have provided a lift.

I think that the Cardinals as an organization have two glaring off the field weaknesses:
First, I think they generally do a poor job of communicating with (and satisfying) the fans. Whether it is raising the payroll, ballpark village or trying to make trades, they do a poor job communicating their plans and intentions.

Second, I think that they over estimate the value of their farm system. How could it go from a mess under Walt, to one of the best less nine months later?

I am too. I would have liked to see an addition or two of a reliever, and maybe an improvement on the middle infield. But nothing?

I’d rather see “no deal” than “bad deal.” Many people here have been clamoring for deals that had no chance of being made unless enough stuff was added to them — flowing out of, not into, St. Louis — to make them into bad deals. We’ve had enough of that in Trader Jock’s declining years.

Full kudos to Mo for having the cojones to wait out the storm, and remember, stuff DOES happen after the deadline; it just gets more involved and chancier.

From what I read there were several relievers out there but the asking price for all was very high. Think about it.
The Cards aren’t the only team, Mets, Phils, Brewers to name a few, looking for bullpen help. Yet not a single relief pitcher was moved except Farnsworth from the Yankees to Detroit. Let’s hope Izzy gets it together.

I’m not asking for big name players like Manny Ramirez in a trade. I don’t think this team needs any more outfield talent, we already have a decent amount of outfield talent. I don’t think we need a big name starter either, with Wainwright and Carpenter coming back, we’ll have a pretty decent rotation, could it use some improvements? Yes, it could, we could use a starter that can eat innings, but if we have to give up a lot for it, I’m opposed to it. I think we need a reliever or two, right now we have one left handed relief pitcher, we need a second. I don’t care who we get, as long as they have even the slightest amount of talent. And we also need a closer. I’m all for what Jason did for us in the past, but this year, he hasn’t been the same, and I don’t want to see him go out there and start blowing save after save again.

Matt,
forgot to ask if Mo got a feel for possible August waiver deals just in case Cards need a lift? Maybe some team has a bad August and decides to sell. Any thoughts?

You know if Carp, Wainwright and Mulder ever get healthy they will be as good a top of the rotation as any in baseball.

A little depressing. Any chance on waiver deals?

Guys, I for one am glad that there wasn’t a move made. Maybe I’m in denial, I hope not, but I remember year after year with LaRussa the team usually finishes strong. Look at the year they won the world series, that team sucked compared to the one a couple of years prior that got swept by the Red Sox. I really do think they’ll win the division. The Cubs will run out of gas.
Let’s face it, the Cubs got lucky against Milwaukee this week. The Cardinals got their butts whooped up on last week winning 1 out of 7 games between the Brewers and the Mets, but they still only stand 4 games out!!! Well, 5 now with how this game is going tonight. Still if the Cubs are all-world then why is the series tied for the year?
By the end of August Wainwright and Mulder WILL be back in the rotation and you’ll see a new pitching rotation that ROCKS!!!! The bullpen will snap out of their funk. Also, the HR hitters will return!!!!

I’m bothered by the seemingly stern stoicism of the front office. How can we seriously compete with the Cubs/Brewers combo with our bullpen performing as poorly as it has? You mean NOTHING could be done? Nothing at ALL? I don’t buy it. Yes, we want to protect our young prospects. Yes, we don’t want to give up the big guns. But we’ve all witnessed the travesty that is the STL bullpen (how many blown saves now?? 22? 23? I lost count) and I have a feeling TLR (the combo of he and Dunc being the main reason we have been in the mix this season) is not going to want to stick around with a team that is not willing to go out and make moves. As the Prince of New York said (paraphrasing here): TLR/Dunc can only work so many miracles before their humanity starts to shine through. I’m bothered. I’m not happy. I’m pouting.
–Jeff
http://redstatebluestate.mlblogs.com/

I agree with jsriley that the Cards’ farm system has not gone from miserable to great in less than a year. Our talent base in the minors is still only average at best, which is precisely why we couldn’t get a deal done without ending up where we started a year ago. However, I disagree that Mo and the front office need to communicate with the fans more. If they let us in on the all of the behind-the-scenes information, they would undermine their own efforts. I would be screaming for Mo to be fired if he started telling us everything. Relax everyone…enjoy this exciting young team. Throw stuff at the radio or TV when the bullpen blows another lead. Heck…take a drink for every time a reliever issues a walk after being ahead in the count. We’re still in this race, and the Cubs have a lot of history to overcome in the next two months. Now I’m going to go back to sipping the Kool-Aid…

It’s the prospects. Walt used a lot of key prospects to make moves to contend over the last ten years or so. (You can’t spell Mulder without the letters “DL”).
I have been saying this for years, but it always bares repeating….You can only make a fair trade if you have what they want, and they have what you want. Look at the Pudge/Farnsworth trade. Yanks needed a C and the Tigers need arms. DONE.
The cupboard isn’t bare, but teams looking to get prospects look at the Cards and move on. I don’t even blame them, the best trade assets are not for sale. It is what it is. It is what it should be.
Besides, if we get Carp & WW back full strength, we get two more RP in Welly and Pinero/Loop…Mostly, I just want to go to CHI next w/e and have them face Carp, WW, and Lohse.

First Trade Deadline for MO…Congrats on your grade..Unlike the grades I gave Jocketty you get a solid “F” …YOUR ONLY LEFTY IN YOUR PEN IS RON VILLONE!!! I guess this is why I’m not a general manager…

Pineiro cannot continue to start. I wonder if he wouldn’t fair better as a long reliever…….in Memphis. Give Garcia another shot, or even Thompson. Anybody but Pineiro or that Parisi kid. Waino needs to hurry. And we could use a Mulder Miracle too.

Thank you to the current Cardinals management team for leaving my teammates and fans in unending suspense. I am growing tired of carrying the offense on most nights, only to see a weak bullpen blow it in the late innings. Our team could be a great one with some SOLID, PROVEN veteran help. Signed, Albert Pujols.

We needed bullpen help, and we failed to get it. The only way we could get to the playoffs is if we traded for relievers, which we didn’t do. We still have to rely on the starters to pitch consistently and our offense to consistently hit. We’ve done it for the whole season so far, and it can’t last much longer. Signed, Disgruntled Fan

Hey Slata do you remember when Ray King was our only lefty? That was under Jock… Mo has already said he is bringing up Garcia for another lefty… the cards are in contention and we still get a bunch of complaining… Seriously at the begining of this year we all didnt expect to even be in fourth place in this division. Hang in there and trust the guys… they have great chemistry and that is probably a reason they didnt want to take anybody away or add somebody that could ruin that. Stay patient…

The trading deadline is over. All the complaining in the world won’t make a trade happen now. It’s time to get behind the team and support them. These guys have come out of nowhere this year to amaze all of the experts. After 111 games, they are still getting the job done, playing over .500 ball since the all-star break. They are NOT getting buried in their division. Forget who wins the division, focus on the wild card, it will come out of the Central Division and I believe the Cards will be better than either the Cubs OR the Brewers.

No the Cards did not make a trade but the reactivation of Carp was as good a move as the Cubs or Brewers made.
And the Cards still have two more possible moves, without
giving up a thing. Wainwright and Mulder! The Cards could
very well have a surplus of pitching in three weeks.
Imagine Carp, Wainwright, Mulder and Loshe as a top 4 in the rotation! But I doubt Cards can resign Loshe.
This team is sooooo much better than what I expected.

I’m behind this team just as much if not more then any person that blogs on this thing, which is why I’m upset they didn’t do anything to help this team? Jaime Garcia? another starter you want to turn into a reliever and he didn’t look all that great as a starter in the bigs this year..he isn’t ready hence the word (Prospect) Another untradeabe guy apparently! Carp and Wainright are just as good of moves that the Cubs or Brewers have made, unfortunately it doesnt’ mean anything if our bullpen blows the lead they work so hard to get for us….And for all of you Mulder dreamers..what is it going to take for you to figure out he isn’t EVER going to be the same again. Rehabbed his butt off after 2 surgeries to come back for 16 pitches..do you really 3 more weeks of no baseball activities is gonna make him a new man? Get Real…That trade is a bust and Dan Haren is still scratching his head. The fact of the matter is we needed some help if for no other reason then to show these young kids and Albert that the front office is behind them and will do whatever it takes as much as the fans are. We are already starting to slip since we are 5 games back in the Central now and has everybody already forgotten we lost 4 in a row to a team that the Cubs just made look silly! NOT GOOD!! So I will stay behind my team as I ALWAYS am but I have every right to be upset with management because THEY were dissapointing!

Reactivating Carp — a guy who hasn’t pitched in well over a year — is NOT the same as signing CC Sabathia or Rich Harden. Sorry. Can’t even compare. Front office dropped the ball.
–Jeff
http://redstatebluestate.mlblogs.com/

Trades aren’t over yet. There’s still the waiver period till the end of August. Let’s see if he can do anything through there. I think that if the organization feels that Garcia can be the lefty we need out of the pen for 2 months, then it’s worth a shot. If not, then we retool the pen in the offseason for 2009, when a lot of big contracts can come off the payroll.

It’s hard for folks in a panic to believe that sometimes the best move is no move at all.

Mo did good. Not all prospects work out; X-number out of X-number; name your numbers, then trade the cream and re-calculate your odds of success?

Okay, I’m confused here. I’m seeing someone talk about how Garcia didn’t look good out of the starting rotation and should be traded. Um…what? 5 innings, 3 earned runs in his first start in the majors, his only start in the majors, and 2 scoreless innings of relief. Struck out 6 in 7 innings, walked 2, and allowed 3 earned runs, and somehow he looks bad? He’s going to be a starter for us next year, most likely, and a pretty darn good one at that. But right now we need relief help, and that’s the roll he’s going to play until next year. I’m just wondering when he looked bad, maybe someone’s blind here, and I know it’s not me. And yeah, reactivating Carpenter is a good movie, just as good as trading for Sabathia or Harden, because Carpenter was one of the greatest pitchers in the National League at one point in time, and if I remember correctly, pitchers usually return being better after Tommy John Surgery, look at Ryan Dempster, I’d say he’s doing pretty good, wouldn’t you? Yes, Carpenter may take a couple of starts or more until he’s back to being his old self, but he will be there, and it will help this team, to think otherwise is just insanity.

*move not movie.

Yes I did say he didn’t look all that great..No 5 innings and 3 runs isn’t good enough if you want to be a starter in the majors, which is why he needs to remain in AAA and refine his tools and his pitching so that he can be that starter they are looking for, instead of putting him in a relief role and hoping he saves the managements dissapointing lack of moves. I don’t know anymore then you do if he will be a big time starter in the majors, but I do know that guys like Fuentes, Sherrill and Holliday can play. And I never said he should be traded, I said he is one of our many untradable prospects. (Garcia, Rasmus, Anderson, Boggs, etc….) Your probably one of the people that said don’t trade Anthony Reyes hi is a stud…how did that work out for them? I agree Carpenter will be fine, and when Wainright comes back he will be fine and then we will have to figure out what we do with the rotation but until whenever that is, Neither of them is back and in their old form, which means the bullpen gets worked out when they pitch, a bullpen that is tied for FIRST in the MLB in relief losses (23) and FIRST in Blown saves (25)…Two categories you don’t want to be FIRST in! So you keep being Mo’s right hand man and looking and hoping these kids just keep playing there butt off and can hang in playoff contention, and hoping that in 2009,10,12 or whenever the PROSPECTS you wouldn’t trade to get the help to win this year pan out and doesn’t become another Anthony Reyes! FYI: If this management team is so smart as some people seem to think, As they are playing the merry-go-round of people coming and going from the minors why hasn’t Josh Phelps gotten a crack? He is batting .285, 25 homers, and 81 RBI’s in AAA, can play 1st and OF and has major league experience and hasn’t sniffed the majors since spring training. I’m sure I will be called blind again because I’m sure MO has his reasons for keeping his best performing prospects in the minors when the one’s he brings up don’t do much to help.

Just talked to MO – he is really, really trying to do all he can to screw up this season and torque everyone off. He won’t be satisfied until the Birds are in last place and getting their hats handed to them by awful teams. Mo wants the bullpen to suck to no end, and anyone who performs well in AAA has to stay there until they retire or are released.

Just wanted everyone to understand and agree that some of our bloggers are saying exactly that. Come on, dudes. The Cards are over-achieving and Mo and company are trying to do the best they can. There is no conspiracy here (although I understand the man on the Grassy Knoll is batting .389 with 31 HRs in an unnamed minor league town).

By the way, we are the Wild Card leaders!

Phelps isn’t on the 40 man roster. There’s your reason right there why he isn’t here. Where do we put him? He can’t play CF, Pujols and Glaus have the corners blocked through next season, can’t afford to make Skip a platoon player because he is too valuable as a leadoff hitter, Ludwick is playing too well to put Phelps in right field (or whichever position Lud would be playing each day), and Phelps isn’t a middle infielder. Off the bench we have Mather and Stavinoah right now, so we need left handed power off the bench if anything for the offensive side. Phelps doesn’t help right now.

As far as Garcia is concerned, it costs us no prospects or exchanging of money to give him a shot at the ML club. Maybe it’s the help we need, maybe it isn’t. I’d rather find out with Garcia, than giving up a couple prospects for a lefty and have it not pan out.

I second that to a T Matto!!!

How pathetic. We needed bullpen help – BADLY – and didn’t get anything. How is this bullpen going to be able to help carry the team??? It’s not going to be good having to rely on THIS bullpen to end games…

All this complaining. I’m glad your self-esteem doesn’t depend on the performance of this team. Mo tried to get Fuentes, but the cost was too great. Maybe we’ll hear what the Rockies wanted down the road. I’m content with the current team and believe they will at least win the Wild Card. Have some faith in what they can do, not what they have done. I hope the bullpen proves all you wrong. I’m sure you hope that, too.

Guys, Once Wainwright and Mulder come back and get their stamina back as well as Carpenter and go no less than 7 innings you’ll see a difference in the bullpen.

This may be Izzy’s last year before he retires and I just think he lost confidence and needed a break. You guys remember Macky Sasser, the catcher? He lost confidence in throwing the ball back to the pitcher. So, I think there’s a lot of crazy things we don’t see behind the scenes.

Like I said earlier in this blog, this team will win the division! Pinella will drive his team into the dirt! Zambrano will start running out of gas and losing his composure along the way. Dempster, if he couldn’t hang in Atlanta then that’s enough said. Marquis, same deal as when he was in St. Louis. Harden, we’ll wait on the judgement on him considering where he played before switching leagues and the likes of Zito Mulder and Hudson.

You guys also have to remember the Cardinals get 5 days off this month versus the Brewers and Cubs getting only three. Plus, the Cubs have a very difficult schedule the last three weeks of the season!

CARP returns – great for team. Mulder, put him on waivers = he’s done in my book. This organization has SOOOOOO much money, it is ridiculous. It is getting almost CUB-like – just give the fans enough to get them in the stadium. HOPE gets you home at the end of september. Don’t think NY Yankees – think Boston Red Sox – SMART, BIG MONEY. I enjoy reading from everyone, thank you guys. Todd.

Guys even if carp and wainy dont eat up innings that still 2 pitchers that were starters pitching out of the pen so the pen changes just from that… You guys are thinking that we need knew people for the pen to change but we dont…

*new

I agree that the bullpen needs some help (actually a lot of help and that’s the problem) but the real question is what would Mozeliak have had to give up to get someone like Fuentes. The Central Division is VERY tough what with the Brewers having Sabathia and Sheets at the top of their rotation with a powerful offense and the Cubs (as much as I hate to admit it) are also VERY strong with Zambrano, Dempster, and Harden and they too are no slouches offensively. Even with that and without Carpenter and Wainwright the Cards are hanging right in the race.

The point is that unless Mozeliak could make a deal that caused a SIGNIFICANT improvement in heir chances of winning the division, I think he did the right thing not giving away two or three real prospects for a player that wouldn’t make the Cards the odds-on favorites. I think they still have a reasonable chance of winning the division or at least the wildcard. They still have 9 games with the Cubs and 2 with the Brewers. If they deserve to be there then they need to win enough of those games. With Carpenter (back to his old form) and Wainwright and Loshe at the top of the rotation I think they can do that. If not then we are still in good shape for 09.

I’m of the opinion that to be a contender year after year they have to do a tough balancing act. A really high price for Fuentes seems to me to be an attempt to upset that balance. I think Mozeliak did a good job of keeping his balance.

Am I alone in not wanting to settle for the Wild Card? Where did our hutzpah go? Eh? When did the Redbirds start aiming for the Wildcard? Especially when the Cubs have a strong team? No way! Stop this Wildcard talk. Competing for the Division Crown should be the only thing on the team’s (and our) mind(s).
–Jeff
http://redstatebluestate.mlblogs.com/

IF all of this GREAT bullpen help is out there then why didn’t anyone move???? Obviously MO wasn’t the only one who thought the asking price was to hi for all of them. I read that he was really trying to get the deal for Fuentes done, but in the end they wanted to much. All of you people that are screaming that all of this bullpen help is out there… tell me where it is and where they got moved to becaue the Cardinals aren’t the only team in need of bullpen help… and if things start shaking the right way.. I dont think they do. Don’t expect Mulder to be back, you all who keep saying his name are dreaming. I love the guy, b ut as I’ve said before, he hasen’t been the pitcher he was out west since he’s been here. But with Carp, WW and Loshe as our top 3 i’d take that agains Z, Dempster and Harden anyday. Yes the Cubs are good (can’t believe i said that) but so are we. We should be proud that the Wild Card will come from the Central and not the East. Yes the Division would be better, but hey the post seasons the post season, when we get there it wont matter how.

Slata, not to sound rude or anything, but I’m beginning to wonder if you think before you type. “5 innings and 3 runs isn’t good enough to be a starter in the majors, which is why they need to keep him at AAA.” For it being his first start and only start in the majors, I’d say that’s pretty good. There’s starters that are the best in the game, CC Sabathia, Ben Sheets, Chris Carpenter, Adam Wainwright, and Rich Harden that have times where they go 5 innings and give up more than three runs, and there’s time where they go 7 and give up 0 earned runs. Basing Garcia off of one start and saying he’s not good enough to be in the majors is stupidity, I’d say for a rookie that was a darned good outing, and putting him in the bullpen isn’t a bad idea, if he’s to start at the majors next year, some experience working from the bullpen would be good.

5 innings and 3 runs ISN’T good enough to be a starter in the majors — if it becomes the pattern, i.e., what you expect going forward. But Crazy is certainly right that a single start provides altogether inadequate data as to whether that would be Garcia’s pattern or not. The verdict is still out on just how good a major-league starter Garcia can/will be. His minor-league record suggests he can be a pretty good one, although it’s unrealistic to expect ace.

That said, I’m entirely comfortable with, and indeed would prefer, putting Garcia on the Wainwright career path and having him work out of the pen most of the time in his first year. It worked well for WW, it would address a need for the 2008 season, and sets him up for long-term success. What more do you want, egg in your beer?

Thank you canbelto for agreeing with me!

What about Arthur Rhodes going to the Marlins for minor league P Gaby hernandez? He was available for ONE minor leaguer. Sure Rhodes is 38, but he’s a Tony LaRussa-style lefty specialist now. He’s pitched 22 innings in 32 appearances this year. He’s used to coming in for one or two batters. I don’t think it would have hurt to try it.

From what I heard, we were trying to get Brian Fuentes, but the asking price for him was too high. So instead of giving up a lot of talent, we went with the alternative and got a left reliever in Jaime Garcia. I’d rather get the lefty reliever just by calling him up, rather than getting him by trading 2 or 3 minor leaguers to get him. We made the right call there. And I think the only thing we really need is maybe 1 or 2 middle reliever, which we can get off of waivers.

We’ll see. The Rhodes deal was doable, I think, and we wouldn’t have given up much. Gaby Hernandez is a pitcher recently demoted to AA. I
I don’t see how you can say it was the right call until you see the result though. If Garcia is good, then all will be forgotten. But if it comes down to a game or two that we lose late for bad lefty relief, we’ll all wish they had made some move. Show some sign that they (management) want to win.

M, give our best to Little Dunc in the days leading up to his surgery, and hope that he gets better soon.

Ditto…Lets just hope the surgery’s a success.

So how much did this Clement experiment cost the club in real dollars??? More wasted money! And yet we can’t make a good trade when it’s needed. Sickening…

If the Cards end up needing Wainwright in the ‘pen, like they keep talking about, then this lack of action at the deadline is going to be the killer. Because we NEED him in the rotation, and the only thing that could take him out of the rotation would be continued failure of the bullpen.

The thing on Clement wasn’t a complete failure. This year can be used as year to get him back to 100% and we have an option so we can still have him next year, I do believe.

Wow, didn’t know they released Clement, my bad.

The only way that we get someone in the closer at the deadline is if we had gotten Fuentes, and he would have been really expensive to grab. I don’t think Ohman or Sherril are good enough to be closers.

Who ever said we had to trade for a closer? Some left handed bullpen help would have been the most beneficial, and that WAS a viable option. I doubt Garcia is going to be as solid as a guy like Arthur Rhodes or Will Ohman could have been. Mo should have tried harder. I don’t think he ever wanted to make a move. I think he’s too scared to make a move, because of the possibility of it not working out. I think Mo is more concerned with saving money than winning.

The only way though that I see Adam going to the pen is if he is going to close. So I don’t think the deadline had much effect on it.

I guess you can look at it a number of ways. Because IF you get bullpen help, it can allow the other guys to get comfortable in specific roles and thus stabalize your ‘pen. That, in turn, allows whoever is the closer to BE the closer and that’s it. Those guys don’t have to think about whether Franklin or McClellen or Izzy gets the save oppurtunity. Franklin and McClellen know their roles, and Izzy his. So the way I see it, the deadline DID have an effect on the whole pitching staff. Now if Garcia is good and so is Izzy, then all is well. But if Garcia fails then so did management by not making a deal at the deadline.

Nice job by TLR managing the bullpen tonight. It’s very disappointing when we get a good start and can’t get many runs, and then the bullpen does a real good job of helping. It’s also disappointing when we can get a game back on the Wild Card and fail to capitalize. I wonder how Moz feels about not doing anything now!

Another blown save??? thanks for getting us help.

Russ Springer makes me sick.
–Jeff
http://redstatebluestate.mlblogs.com/

Oh to all you people that think MO did us a favor…I hope you were watching tonights game! Yet another lead lost with our bullpen and more great AB’s from Nick and Joe! this is gonna be a looooooooooong 2nd half!

Slata, once again, do me a favor and think before you speak. I’d rather keep the bullpen we have than to give away 2 or 3 prospects for someone in their 30′s. And why does Russ Springer make you sick? He’s pitched good for the majority of the year, he messes up once and you bash him. You guys are annoying, and you call yourself Cardinals fans, you sure as heck don’t sound like it, and if you are, you give Cardinals fans a bad name, is it okay to be upset? Yes, it is, but is it okay to bash a GM because he didn’t give up the future for the present? No, you sound like fools, it’s his first year and you’re already treating him as if he shouldn’t be here, this is pathetic.

Ya ya I know Crazy your smarter then all of us. I mean really why would I give up the future that I’ve seen so far in the majors from the minors this year for a proven 28-32 year old Major League player. You do realize that if they do awesome at AAA but they suck in the majors they aren’t really the future anymore right?? The only guy that has stuck with this big league club all year and deservedly so is McClellan. Mather and Stavinoha showed us again how cluth they are tonight, Jimenez is on a permanent merry-go-round and the “soon to be cardinal closer” Perez can’t even stay in the majors. I think I’m starting to see why we couldn’t make a trade. Because people are seeing how our “prospects” are performing in the majors. While our #1 untouchable soon to be Roger Maris prospect Colby Rasmus is sitting in AAA with 329 AB’s and sporting a .249 11hr, 36 rbi, 72 strike out line. So if your asking if I would give up any of them for a guy that when his name is called can get the job done?? Your darn right I would. Your obviously on the Uncle MO plan though where its better not to touch any of them and hopefully in 2010-2011 seasons they will have come around or maybe by then they will be on the Anthony Reyes plan and being traded for AA players. Stop telling me how pathetic I am when your defending a guy that didn’t give us any help for a bullpen that ranks FIRST in BLOWN Saves and Relief LOSSES. Apparently your satisfied with that, and if that is the type of TRUE Cardinal fan you are..Then that is PATHETIC!

No, not smarter than everybody, just you. And who’s sucked in the majors that’s come up from our minors? Let me guess, you’re going to bring up someone that only has like 40 at bats in the majors right, and then say that because of those 40 at bats, that’s how he’s going to be for the rest of his career. Wow, you’re dumb. Mather and Stavinoha are rookies, they’re not going to come straight up from the minors and blow our minds with a .400 average and 80 HR’s right away, retard. You’re judging someone off of very little at bats or very little innings pitched. I bet you’re one of the idiots who wanted to trade Wainwright right away at the beginning of last year when all he had was a few starts under his belt. Go crawl under a rock and look up baseball for idiots, because you need to, because you are one. You make me sick, you bash players without even a significant amount of innings pitched or at bats.

I’d love to see you as a manager, that way I could see your team finish last year after year, because you give up players with only 50 at bats during the majors and claim they’re not good enough.

People like you shouldn’t even watch baseball, you have no knowledge of the game. You think you can judge a player off of 86 at bats (Mather), or someone who’s had 28 at bats (Stavinoha). What do you expect these guys to do in those little at bats? Bat .480 with 12 HR’s and 40 RBI’s?

And sorry Matt for using insults, but I’m ticked.

Attaboy you just keep your insults up..I’m amused over here. I would love to be a manager of a team because I wouldnt’ be keeping guys that will never be starters in the majors (and if they would, your team blows) over trading for guys that could help your team make the playoffs and beyond (the overall goal every year) I know I know nothing about baseball..if you think I’m basing Nick or Joe’s career off of what they have done so far then your the idiot, but I am saying that for whatever amount of time they have been up they havn’t gotten the job done! Watching the bullpen ALL YEAR they havn’t gotten the job done. 24 Relief Losses and 25 Blown Saves..add half of that to our record and guess where were sitting in the standings!! Can you do math? Sometimes you can just tell if a player has the eye at the plate or what it takes to be in the majors..Stavinoha shows none of that, Mather might be decent but are you gonna start him over Shu, Ankiel or Ludwick? My point is these guys havn’t produced when called upon, and that is what we need right now, NOT they are gonna blow their whole careers. Bases loaded one out and they both strike out swinging like they have never seen a pitcher that can throw anything but a fastball swinging at everything when he has been wild the whole inning. All 3 of our outfielders right now are relatively young Shu-28, Ank-29, Lud-30 and neither of those guys are going to start over them when they are all healthy. So while your throwing insults and defending MO because he has done SOOO much to impress you so far this year, I’ll continue to watch the help we didn’t get hurt us, and the help were calling up from AAA continue to fail. It must suck to be a starter on this staff knowing you better go 8-9 innings to make your lead that you work your butt off for hold up!

No dude, you wouldn’t do good. You’d trade a guy in his early 20′s claiming they have done nothing in 80 at bats and get a 38 year old relief pitcher near the end of his career in return. And did you not see who was pitching? His name is Brad Lidge, he’s been one of the best closers throughout his career. God forbid a guy who’s had little experience in the majors striking out against one of the best strike out pitchers in baseball, that’s just horrible. I don’t like giving up the future for one person, I think it’s dumb. And yes, they are the future, even if they don’t start everyday, they’ll still contribute to the team, you do realize you need bench players right? With Wainwright coming back, our bullpen will most likely get stronger, because someone will be losing their starting job and going to the bullpen once he returns. And if our offense would have scored more runs for Wellemeyer, he probably would have stayed out there to finish off the inning, instead he lasts 6 innings and is taken out for relief. The main reason or relief blows this year is because they get overused, because we have 3 starters barely averaging over 5 innings, that leaves 4 innings for your bullpen to take over.

Fuentes-33, Sherill-31, Ohman-31 (Top 3 the Cards were looking at)…not sure where your getting 38 from. Yes we need a bench but it doesn’t do much if the people coming off the bench don’t produce. So if the guys aren’t doing the job then try someone else which is why I said Phelps..I think sending Stavinoha down and bringing Phelps up would be a good move..I’m sure you will insult that as well. I have never said trade our whole farm system for 38 year old guys, or give up our whole future to win now, but when you look at our current roster and who will more then likely be starting for us for a few years down the road you can determine who is expendable to use as trade chips to help your team now. Ank, Lud and Shu aren’t going anywhere, and apparently Rasmus is next in line, and if Dunc can get right next year then he is still here…which puts Mather and Nick on the sidelines. TLR loves to use the bullpen when it gets to around the 6th inning that is just how he is (Unless Wainright or Carpenter at full health are pitching). Wellemeyer got taken out with a lead in the 6th, I’m sure he wasn’t begging TLR to take him out that’s just how he works. Then the mixing and matching started where Tony got to watch his bullpen give up another lead while he stood scratching his head in the dugout once again. Again the blame for at least 25 losses fall on the bullpen..which means for 6-8 innings of the game the starters and offense did their job…The number one job of relief is to HOLD the lead..they have failed! PERIOD! Once Carpenter and Wainright are actually at full strength and helping our team again that will be a big boost…BUT will it be too late and who exactly goes to the bullpen?? and when that happens who leaves the bullpen?? You know the bullpen that you defend along with MO because we Didn’t need any help apparently… Go Ahead genius put your little manager hat on and figure it out for me.

No, I would be all for calling Phelps up, but he’s mainly a 1st baseman, so he wouldn’t get a lot of playing time. And they were asking too much for Fuentes, which is why we didn’t make the deal to get him. And that was the main guy the Cardinals were focusing on trying to get at the deadline. And Ludwick is a free agent at the end of this year. If I were the GM I’d of traded him at the deadline, because our starting outfield next year is most likely going to be Schumaker, Ankiel, and Rasmus. And a lot of the time the manager has to take the pitcher out, regardless of what inning it is, because their pitch count gets up. And Wellemeyer has no problem getting his pitch count into the 90′s around the 5th or 6th inning. And I’m going to assume that once Wainwright and Carpenter are back at 100%, Pineiro will be going to the bullpen, and to make room for him, Garcia will either be sent down, or they’ll send down a hitter and go to 13 pitchers, 12 hitters again. And I never once said we needed help, I was all for bullpen help, but the asking price was too high, and I don’t feel like giving up 2 or 3 minor league players, for one person. If I’m giving up 2 or more people, I want 2 or more people out of the deal. And this is Mo’s first year, and it seems like you’re bashing him, because he didn’t want that either.

I keep hearing that the asking price was too high and your comments seem to think that you know more then I do…So what were they asking for?? And don’t tell me 2-3 guys…Give me names. If you like everyone else doesn’t know then you can’t say the asking price was too high. And OH MY GOD..you would give up on Ludwick to bring up Rasmus and start Shumaker..PLEASE tell me your kidding…since I’m apparently the one in this conversation that knows nothing about baseball. I’m all for letting Rasmus battle for a job..most likely Shumakers but good God man you talk about lack of offense and then you want to give up the only real protection that Pujols has had this year?? He is batting .306 and leads the team in HR’s, RBI’s, and Slugging..YES LEADS the team. Is it a career year or is it a guy showing what he can do once he gets a shot?? Who knows but I’m damn sure not gonna give up on him for a kid that can’t hit .250 at AAA, I don’t care how much of a can’t miss prospect he is gonna be or a guy that has 6 HR’s and 33 RBI’s no matter how much I like Shu. It’s late and I’m tired but please tell me I didn’t read that. Otherwise you should apply for a position with the front office as you will fit in well with the rest of them that will tell us they didn’t give Lud a contract because they wanted to get younger and not dish out a couple dollars for a player that has PROVEN his worth. I emphasize PROVEN because these are things that “Prospects” have not done yet, no matter how much scounts say they will during one of the years in the future.

Here’s a different way to look at the asking price:
Who traded for Fuentes? Sherril? Ohman?
There were a lot of teams after them besides the Cardinals. Did any of them go through with a deal?

thanks heymatto… my point exactly.

One thing to think about with last night’s game against the Phils, we hit into DP’s in each of the 3 innings before the 9th, including with Ludwick up and the bases loaded in the 8th with 1 out. This wasn’t all on the pen, it was a team loss. We had our chances to tack on to our lead for 3 innings and couldn’t. Russ and Garcia have their first poor outings in a while (Sine what, April for Springer?), and having a poor outing against the Phils comes back to bite you.

true

If we’re going to trade anyone. I’d much rather trade guys like Ludwick or Ankiel. Because Ludwick, I do believe, as I’ve stated before, is a free agent at the end of this year. And after his monster year, several teams are going to be looking to acquire him, meaning we’ll have to beat out several teams offers. And Ankiel is a Scott Boras agent, and after the way he’s played this year, Boras is going to be trying to get him a monster contract. I say trade one of those two guys and get as much talent for them as you can, before you end up losing them to another team, and get nothing in return. And you want to bring up Rasmus’s low batting average, yet you refuse to look at recent stats for him. Over the last month or so, he’s been hitting a lot better, he was hitting around .199 a month or so ago. And you also refuse to bring up the fact that he was injured, and an injury can always pay a toll on you, resulting in poor performance. And I do believe Rasmus is the type of guy who’s going to start out poorly, then after awhile he’ll start raking an finish the year with good all around stats. Ryan Howard does the same thing. Not comparing them at all, other than the fact I think they’re both players who start out slow, then start raking. Not to mention I find obp to be a far more important stat than average, and Rasmus’s is like what, .346 or something like that? I’d say that’s a pretty good on base percentage, especially to bat 2nd in front of Pujols. Not to mention, hitting in front of Pujols, is most likely going to improve a players stats. Avg and Obp tends to go up for a player batting in front of Pujols. And think about it this way, trading one of them (Ludwick or Ankiel) allows you to call up Josh Phelps, which is one of the things you said you wanted to do. If you trade Ludwick, keep Ankiel in center, move Schumaker to RF, and place Phelps in LF. If you trade Ankiel, keep Ludwick in RF, move Schumaker to CF, and make Phelps, once again the LFer. And you said that Ludwick has been Pujols only form of protection, apparently you forget about Troy Glaus.

My thoughts on last night’s game (and the series) against the Phillies…if anyone is interested: http://www.cardsnstuff.wordpress.com

back to the Cards activating Carp being as good a move as Sabatthia and Haren. I think actually activating Carp was a better move because it DID NOT cost the Cards any players.
Any when Wainwright comes back the Cards will be even better. The Brewers are going for it all this year because they don’t have as promising a future and Sheets and Sabatthia are both free agents. Suppan is no spring chicken. Gagne has seen better years. So next year when they falter and the Cards have another good year, the Brewer fans will be crying in their Milwaukee beer.

08/04/2008 10:51 AM ET
Cards’ rotation proving critics wrong
Coach Duncan a huge influence on fill-in starters’ successes
By Lee Hurwitz / MLB.com

what are they talking about??????? they only avg 5 innings per start – them the “pen” chucks it.

Here’s an idea for the coaching staff… when two young hitters who have never seen one of the dominant closers in the league’s slider – one that almost always drops out of the strike zone – come up to the plate in the ninth inning with the bases loaded and one out and the team being down by one run, it seems worth suggesting that perhaps they might want to wait for the closer to throw a strike or two before swinging… this will allow them to see the pitcher throw a few times and, at least potentially, reduce the likelihood they (and the coaching staff) will be made to look as silly as they did last night.

And, for TLR: last night (again?) it was the bullpen (and your management of it), not the offense… at least that’s how it seemed watching from here in mid-Michigan. If you believe so deeply in lefty-on-lefty stats, why-oh-why did Springer (who had just shown that he couldn’t get the ball near the plate in the previous at-bat) pitch to the lefty second baseman with 26 (now 27) homers?

you can’t just put the blame on the pen. Our team blew three big opportunities before the 9th inning, hitting into a DP each time.

Utley hit a HR off of Wellemeyer, not Springer.

I don’t know. I know TLR played the matchups right, but I think we all felt that sick feeling in our stomachs when Springer came in despite that… probably because of our streak of poor performances.
–Jeff
http://redstatebluestate.mlblogs.com/

I thought the announcers said Victorino was 0 for 7 lifetime against Springer, thus the decision by TLR. So it backfired this time but if that was the history TLR made the right choice.

Not to mention the fact that our best reliever with inherited runners has been Springer. Especially with 2 outs. There have been several times this season that he’s come in thrown one pitch and gotten the third out. So Springer was a good call. Baseball backfires sometimes.

OK, I withdraw my comment about the homer by Utley, I meant Victorino – and I was worried I had it wrong anyway… mea culpa (though, to waffle on my culpability, I’d said twice during the game that a Cardinal hitter with a lousy record against one of the Phillies’ pitchers “was due” – not scientific I know – and they came through [and Springer still obviously had no control)………, but I stand by the batting advice.

Slata and Crazy,
Guys both of you are regulars here and both of you know that there are a ton of differences in how managers manage. We dont want to read about you insulting each other…. Talk baseball. Anyway… TLR played the numbers the other day, which is what he is supposed to do. Russ had one bad outing, so whoever said Russ makes you sick isn’t remembering the rest of the year… He has been one of, if not the best, reliever we have. Anyway, Carp pitching again tonight!! Please let Manny go 0- I really dont like that guy…

bshiflett, agree about the insults… and about Springer, in general… however, what drives me insane about TLR is just exactly his propensity to always play the numbers because, while that is his usual style it is counterbalanced in what I see as a flawed way by an overcommitment to some personal favorites and a overquick distaste for, and unwillingness to trust, others – they key being that this bipolarity in his coaching style means that there never seems to be a quick recognition that “while Springer has been among our most reliable relievers this year, it is screaminingly obvious that he doesn’t have it tonite” or “given how this situation is developing, it is unavoidable that the inexperienced hitters I have coming up in this critical, pressure-packed moment are going to need some advice when it comes to approaching their at-bat” or “hell, the man’s mowing them down, who cares if he’s a righty and the next batter’s left-handed, let’s build his confidence, keep the fielders on their toes by continuing a fast-moving game, and save the rest of the bullpen.”

I’m excited about Carpenter tonite, too, and really happy to hear that Wainwright’s getting better in a hurry these days.

Amen on the insult comments boys – let’s keep it classy. You know the Dude would be upset with the tone taken here. By the way… Dude? Bueller? Anyone? You OK?

Anyone notice the approach with Schu at the end of the last two games? I understand he is not hitting lefties, but what was the deal with Izterrible pinch hitting to bunt Saturday, and then k-ing when he didn’t get the bunt down? Schu couldn’t do that against a lefty? I don’t get it.

And, then Stavinoa hits for him Sunday, stays in the game, and then k’s in the ninth? I like Stavinoa. But I like Schu much more. In general, Schu has been pretty clutch, and his defense is way better than Stavinoa. I understand the numbers. I don’t understand the situations. Anybody else pick up on that?

Yeah i am not saying that I agree with TLR myself all the time, but he plays the numbers all the time even to a fault, but he also wins a lot playing those numbers too… I agree with the Schu comment… I like him in there even if he strikes out like the other guys, but TLR was once again playing the numbers thinking that Izturis and Stavinoah had a better chance producing runs… another situation where hind site is 20/20… he is just trying to make somthing happen and it is hard to especially with Ankiel out…

you dont have that extra impact bat on the bench… is what I was saying with Ankiel being out…

We could use another left handed power source off the bench. Only one in the organization I can think of is Colby, and he won’t be a bench player when he comes up. Is Anderson left handed swinging?

I agree with Alan and Scott completely. I have been griping about Tony’s propensity for ALWAYS playing the numbers for years. He really does break it down like chess. Players are just Pawns..or Rooks or whatever. It’s almost as if he doesn’t consider in the least the human side of things. He wants the numbers matchups, always plays the percentages, and gives no thought whatsoever to the human aspect…like whether the guy just doesn’t have it that night, or whether the guy has been on tear lately (doesn’t matter you’re still gonna get pinch hit for if you’re a lefty and they have a lefty on the mound). Things like that are why TLR makes good players mad at him, and then they ask for a trade to get away from the guy. And things like that are what separate him from managers like Bobby Cox and Lou Piniella. They may not have quite as high of a winning percentage, but they have all won a lot and with different teams. Tony has more WS rings, but that makes sense when you go to more WS. He also has many more WS losses…and most times being swept in a WS.

which also means he got to the WS… I’ll take that over Bobby Cox and Lou any day of the week… That means my baseball season is consistantly longer than theirs…

Cox has won a lot with teams other than the Braves? He had a short stint with them before his current one, and a short one in Toronto, but nothing major came from it. No World Series appearances and only one playoff berth which the Jays lost.

How many times has Cox lost in a world series? The Braves won the pennant 5 times with him and won a grand total of 1 world series. TLR has won 2 world series with the same amount of pennants. Career in the postseason he is 66-64 while La Russa is 59-48.

Pinella also has won only 1 world series and hasn’t since 1990. And in his career in the postseason he has a sub-500 record. The last time a Pinella lead team even made it to the WS was that 1990 Reds team.

I said he got to more WS! Did you not read that? I’m saying I’D rather have a guy with Lou’s or Bobby’s personality and not Tony’s PERIOD. That’s the actual point here people. Not who’s got better stats!!!! I started out by saying Tony has more wins, etc. !!!! What part of that is hard to understand, really? I’m talking about using more brain power and less stats on paper. The game is not played on paper. It’s played on a diamond.
Seriously, are you guys reading posts; just looking for things to pick apart? Please don’t do that. Read it ALL, and if you don’t understand something, or disagree with it, just say so. There’s no need to pull a bunch of numbers out in an attempt to prove someone wrong. It’s my opinion, and as I said before I began that last part of my previous post by saying “Tony has a better winning percentage…”

And I’m saying I’ll take the personality of the winner over the hot head managers. I’ve never actually been fond of Sweet Lou.
And I was saying that they haven’t won with multiple teams, at least not more than La Russa. That’s it.

I don’t disagree with you. I said that TLR has a better winning percentage to begin with. And all I said about the other two is they have won a lot. No refuting that. And they have won with different teams. No refuting that. I never said the other two won multiple pennants or division titles or WS with several different teams. Obviously we disagree on the manager, TLR. But if you’re going to respond to me, respond to what I write not whatever part you wanna disprove, please. I could pick apart what you say and try to refute every bit of it, but there’s no point. It’s your opinion, and you are entitled to it. I’m just asking that you return that respect.

I just don’t care much for personality discussions, mostly because I don’t know these people outside of articles or sound clips. I can’t make proper judgement on those things, only based on results. That’s why I use stats and such.

I don’t know La Russa at all. I don’t know Pinella, I don’t know Cox, or any person in baseball. I can’t judge their personalities based on anything but what I see on the diamond and in the box scores. So I can’t refute what you say about his personality. And I’m not going to judge his personality based on how some players have viewed him. Some people will like you, others will not, just fact of life. As you respect my opinion on the issue of La Russa, respect my approach on how I form opinions about these people.

BTW, I do respect your opinion and your right to express it. Never did I say, or think that you were wrong for not liking TLR. This world would be boring if we all liked the same things. I just don’t see how we can debate his personality. I know I can’t, and I don’t know if you know him or not.

Wow…Manny is getting massive boos tonight. Only time I really remember him in Busch was the 04 series (hit a HR here in game 3) and a 3 game set in 05, but I don’t think it would be that painful to boo him 4 years later. Is it cause of his reputation or something, cause I really didn’t expect him to get booed at all, let alone this bad

Another bad outing for Izzy… What do you think… give him one more closing opportunity 1 game I mean, since he is on a trail time, and to show him a little faith to help his mind, or do you say your done and find someone else? But then who else? I want wainwright in the starting rotation… Maybe Looper? IDK I cant figure this one out… 10th inning… come on guys lets go…

Thanks Luddy!!! Great game, kinda… lets hope that doesn’t happen again…

after just reading coment after coment on “deadline passes” i still have not seen any coments on the pittsburgh/yankees trade that just blew me away. we were looking for a left handed reliever –the yankees got one along with NAdy a proven outfielder with good average and home run power for $ minor leaguers. was mo asleep at the wheel? surely we could have given up Reyes who was still with us at that time along with maybe a Stavinoa and one or two minor leaguers and gotten what i think would have been excellent value what happened there i’ve got to know from someone that has inside to the cardinal brass ???

This bullpen gave me two more heart attacks tonight. Enough already!
–Jeff
http://redstatebluestate.mlblogs.com/

JMooney, was that your way of saying you wanted the Cardinals to get yet another outfielder. If so, my answer is no. We, no, need, outfield. We have Schumaker, Ankiel, and Ludwick as our starting outfielders. They’re all played good enough, and none of them I would want to take out of the lineup to make room for Nady.

Crazy that might have been the as silly of a comment as i have heard if we could have gotten Nady and Marte we would have in a heartbeat, Nady is a proven player with power and Marte would have been the lefty in the pen we needed the reason you should have said was that it was the Pirates who had all the players this year and they are in our division so that the bottom line why we couldnt get them ship them to an American league team so you dont have them kill you several times a season.
I dont know why everyone is so on Skips jock strap because honestly I think that he should be trade bait to get a proven player that has played started more than one season next year what are we going to do with all the outfielders? They probally wont be here because we have to give them opportunities to play so get something for them when we can!

After the 7th inning, the cards probably have the worst record in the league. Another 4 run lead blown last night. what will it take to get some help. it’s awful to watch.

Radtoad is definitely right. I saw a stat a couple weeks ago that the Cards are leading in the 6th inning in 56% of their games. Most of those games are blown. There’s Classic Izzy for ya… just shows that we need a better bullpen to show up sometime this year and next year. Good news, at least, is that we won. Also saw that the Cards signed Felipe Lopez, which isn’t a bad move. I think he’ll be better than Kennedy or Izturis.

They sent Brenden Ryan down to AAA. I like that move for the simple fact he will get more playing time, but I sure like how he plays defense… Wish his bat had more impact already… oh well…

Skip is a valuable commodity. He’s been good as a leadoff hitter this season, can play all 3 outfield positions, and is a quality left handed bat, which is something nice for this team to have. If he is going to be used as trade bait, I think we wait till the season is over at the earliest since he is helping us now.

Classic Izzy was saving 30-40 games a year for us. This Izzy isn’t the classic one, it’s a different one. This one has no confidence, or very little so it seems. Would classic Izzy get 1-2-3 innings? Not usually, but he was able to finish them off before. I don’t know what changed this season, but he is definitely NOT the classic izzy.

Sometimes your stuff just leaves you, let’s see if Izzy can find it back in Memphis, and bring back Perez, since we failed to acquire anyone. We’d be ahead of the Cubs now if we had an ‘average’ closer performance this season. Keep on fighting Cards and make it rough on everyone you play!

Okay, so you want to trade one of our most valuable hitters in Schumaker, our leadoff man, and get Xavier Nady, yeah, that’s great, but, here’s a question, who’s our leadoff man then? We would have one. Schumaker has been our only decent leadoff man this year, noone else has been as good getting on base in the number 1 slot. And anyone who has a decent obp, for example Miles, doesn’t take enough pitches to be a leadoff man, he averages about 3 pitches per at bat.

Crazy,
I find it interesting that such an avid fan as yourself would accuse someone else of giving Cardinal fans a bad name; especially when you yourself said it was your *right* to boo poor performances, particularly those of one Jason Isringhausen. How peculiar!

Crazy is obviously a young kid who hasn’t seen more than 4 or 5 years of baseball at most. I suggest everyone read crazy’s comments, then let em go. You can’t argue with a kid. I was the same way. I thought I knew everything at 15.
Schumaker is pretty good, but he’s not an untouchable player in a trade market. Miles could probably do as good leading off, the way he’s been hitting this year. Or maybe Felipe Lopez. I don’t know much about him. He may not fit the mold at all. But either way, Schumaker is definitely trade bait in my book. He’s earning more return this year, but he’s not playing off the charts like…say…Ryan Ludwick. Who, by the way Crazy, is a free agent at the end of the year I believe. And since we don’t pay to keep our players, how likely is it that he’ll be back next year???

You guys sure are demeaining for being the best fans in baseball… jeez… Anyway… Good luck tonight guys… Izzy forget about the past get back to being confident…

SLForre, I know more about baseball than you give me credit for knowing. I’m 19 years old, I’ve been watching baseball since I was a little kid, I just never got into it until the 2004 season when the Cardinals went to the World Series. Schumaker has been the Cardinals leadoff hitter this year, noone else has performed as well in that roll as he has. If you can find someone who’s a legit leadoff hitter to replace him, then I might be for trading him. Aaron Miles does not take enough pitches to be a leadoff hitter. A leadoff hitter should possess the following attributes, they should have speed, they should be good contact hitters, they should get on base at a decent rate, and they should be able to foul off pitches and work the pitch count. When you average between 3 to 4 at bats each plate appearance, obviously you’re not working the count, now are you? Ryan Ludwick has been a great hitter this entire year, no doubt about that, and I was innacurate in assuming he was a free agent at the end of this year, his first arbitration year is next year, so it’d be best to trade him by then, so that we may get talent in return. If you were to have Included a trade that would have sent Ludwick as well as a few minor leaguers to the Pirates in return for Xavier Nady and Marte, then I would be for it. But, if you’re wanting just more outfield talent, without giving up outfield talent, that’s dumb, we have enough outfield talent as is, and next year Rasmus will probably be an everyday player, so if you were to trade Schumaker for a legit leadoff hitter, then I would be for that trade as well, because then you can have a batting order something like this, lets say the leadoff hitter you got is Player A. And lets say we get a player b as well, who plays either 2nd or 3rd base who has a good on base percentage and would serve well as a second leadoff hitter. Batting order: Player A, Colby Rasmus, Albert Pujols, Troy Glaus, Xavier Nady, Rick Ankiel, Molina, Pitcher, Player B.

And I have the right to boo anyone and everyone I see right to boo, it doesn’t make me classless, it makes me a fan, means I’m getting into the game. What am I supposed to do when a player sucks it up, sit there and cheer him on? That’s stupidity. I’m not going to cheer for a player who’s doing bad. But at the same time, I would never wish an injury upon that player. I was willing to give Izzy another shot, he had it, and he blew it last night. Now I believe we’ve given him enough shots, it’s either time for him to change his spot in the bullpen, or to be demoted, released, or traded. I’m not going to bash him, but I can and will boo him, and you’re not going to tell me I can’t. I don’t care if in your opinion that makes me classless, that’s your opinions, and opinions are like a$$es, everyone has one.

I understand that people can boo whoever they want, but I believe that 50% of what is going on right now with Izzy is his lack of confidence… IDK how booing him is going to build up his confidence enough to get him back to being the player we need. I am looking at it from the team perspective… If I go out there and get booed my confidence level drops insanely… If I go out there and people are cheering for me that gets me going and I feel a little more at ease and confident…

You as a player have to know, before going out there, if you perform poorly, you’re going to hear boos, and if you perform good, you’re going to hear cheers. If he doesn’t want to get booed, he should stop performing poorly, it’s that simple. People aren’t going to cheer him if he’s sucking it up for this team. All I do is simply boo him. I have people in this group I’m in that wish he would fall down the stairs and break his pitching arm. I would never wish harm upon a player, but I’m not going to stand by and cheer them as they continue to hurt this team by performing poorly.

Eh….I don’t think Izzy’s problem is due to him getting booed. First of all he doesn’t get booed til he screws up, and second, if he can’t take criticism (in the form of booing or any other) then he should rethink his career path. Maybe he should try broadcasting or PR. I’m 100% sure his problems are mental. His ball still has life and movement, but he can’t control exactly where it goes. In my view he has two major issues; one is his lack of confidence, and the other is his focus. As TLR said not long ago, “he’s too concerned about the result.” That keeps him from fully focusing on every aspect of every pitch. That puts his command and location off, and therefore, he gets pounded.
And crazy, the reason you don’t get credit for knowing much about baseball is because you say such hot headed things, and that just screams of youth. There’s nothing wrong with that. It’s just that most of the posters on here, I think, have seen 10 or 15+ years of Cardinal baseball. And I think that gives us a different perspective on the game. We’ve seen different managers do different things, and saw the result. We’ve seen players come in and out of St.Louis, and you get a better feel for how the game works when you watch it nearly everyday for that long. I mean no offense to you. I agree with your right, and as I see it, responsibility to boo bad performances. And I appreciate your enthusiasm for the game. I hope you remain a Cards fan for life. Just remember that it’s still a game and these guys are still people, not just athletes.

slforre – i agree with your comments, and i love TLR’s loyalty, but the Cards (my team for life) need to smell the roses and we’re not talking a few bad, or sub-par outings, we’re talking a bad and costly season from Izzy, which we can no longer afford if we are to stay in this hunt for at least a wildcard. This is such a great group of guys to watch play and we need to celebrate that, but let’s just give them every chance to WIN! -rick

I agree about your perception of Izzy as well SLF. It’s all between the ears for Izzy right now. One mistake gets into his mind and he can’t get out of a rut. I really hope he gets it right, but I don’t know if we can afford to find out here if he can.

crazy im simply saying that the birds have said that they needed another proven bat which nady is and that they said they needed left hand relief help. what i wanted to knoe was why couldn’t we land this trade with better “bait” than the yankees had ?? if you remember duncan was the starting outfielder in left and i would have to say nady is a better fit there as of today we have 3 first year outfielders starting in the heat of a pennant race

Got the first two! I was very pleased with how Pineiro and Perez pitched. I consider Perez a one-inning guy, but he seemed like the best guy to get out there. Very impressive night offensively (especially Pujols’ grand slam). Hopefully the Cards take this game as a motivator, and we go on a tear. GO BIRDS!

I still want J.P. out of that starters roll. I think the bullpen would suit him best. And C.P. was spectacular, hope this means he might be getting the majority of the time in the closers roll, now that Izzy lost the job there. And I sure hope this means Pujols can go on a tear as well as the Cardinals. A lot of the Cardinals success would be Pujols heating up. Lets hope Wainwright comes back soon and is good enough to go out there and give you 7 innings a start, and that Carpenter can start getting more innings in as well.

With a five out save last night, it’s hard to imagine Perez coming out for a save opp today, which means it will probably be Franklin or Springer. K-Mac is possible, but I think he’s too valuable as a long inning guy right now, especially with Thompson most likely unavailable after back to back nights.

Is Sunday still supposed to be Carp’s day to pitch? It’s listed as TBD in Lee’s article for today’s game, but it’s Carp’s rotation spot. Did something happen?

What’s with Brian Barton? May be they can hide him out on the DL until September???? After this year, the Cards own him outright and can send him back down to the farm for more experience. I hate to see him traded… talk about prospects, BB is right up there with Mather and above the rest in my book. Another reason I would hate to see him traded is that it could come back to haunt us. He may not look like much right now but his pre-season hitting was outstanding with some pop in his bat and he could have the potential to be another Ricky Henderson or Lou Brock.

That’s the problem I have with Rule V picks. You end up rushing kids to the majors, and sometimes they aren’t ready, but if you demote them, you lose that player.

Now Izzy starts pitching?!!! Dude try doing that 2 days ago…

Izzy, looks like you just need to approach the game like we are three runs down when we are three up. Did Perez jump start Izzy, or did something else get him going? Dominant, man. Best outing in a year by far!

Dude are you going to do another blog soon? It takes me 3 min to scroll to the bottom of this one…

I forget, where’s Waino pitching today? AAA or AA?

AAA I am pretty sure

Crazy I dont dont disagree with Skip being a good lead off but look long range and well as some short term. You dont have to be lightening fast to be a leadoff as long as u get on base I dont care if its a hit, a walk, HBP or by error. I would say Adam Kennedy, Miles, Lopez now that we have him would be a good leadoff. Also you are going to have to realize that we will have to trade someone sometime cause you cant have that man outfielders and with Ramus in Memphis he will take another spot come next season. Skip has been a great Card for us but I think his days are numbered be it the end of August or in the winter cause i think the outfield in STL will be Ludwich, Ramus, Ankiel, Mather and Duncan barring any major trades.
BTW, Am I the only one that thinks our team is one of the worst base running teams in the league GREAT JOB Isturiz!

You guys need to quit getting on people here cause last i knew none of us are getting paid to be Major League managers and everything we say is just opinion, Crazy I dont doubt your a fan and know something about baseball even though your young but we all have out own thoughts about what we want to happen I look at things in the way of spend now win now (a idea STL ownership knows nothing about) cause we could all die tomorrow so this is just a brainstorm of thoughts maybe someday MO will ask our opinions!

Mather definitely won’t be going anywhere soon, because our OF is fairly heavily left handed, an extra right handed guy out there would be nice to have. I still think that Skip makes a pretty good 4th OF, considering he can play all 3 spots, but I know that either he, Duncan, or one of the starters would have to be traded soon for Rasmus’ arrival. I think hanging on to Skip for another year would possibly help out with Rasmus actually, so he could develop a bit more at this level and we have a backup plan if he doesn’t.

Ive seen Ramus being a Iowa Cub season ticket holder and honestly I believe Ankiel is a better player but the Card have said that they will only bring him up if and only if he will be a everyday starter, with Mather playing well where are we going to put him? I wish Mather Played SS then it would be an easy choice. As I look at things right now I dont think anyone on the team besides Yady and Albert would be safe.
Oh also has anyone heard if the Cards and Troy Glaus has been talking contract extention?

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