We have the facts and we're voting… um, no.

So, my email indicates that there’s something of a groundswell among the fan base that the Cardinals should acquire Michael Young. Perhaps even if it means giving up a player of real value, somebody like Brett Wallace.

So, I ask you: why? I ask not rhetorically, but sincerely. Because I don’t see it at all. If you’re on board with trading for Young, please tell me why you see it differently from me.

Here’s what I see:

I see a player who’s 32 years old, and signed for five more years — until he’s 37 years old. That’s known as the decline phase. I see a contract that not only runs for five years, but guarantees $16 million a year.

And what do you get for that? A player whose performance is already declining significantly. Young was legitimately outstanding in 2005, when he hit 331/385/513. That’s a championship-caliber player. He was excellent in 2006, but already heading in the wrong direction: 314/356/459. In 2007, more decline: 315/366/418. A little bump in OBP, but still plummeting power. And in 08?  Yikes. 284/339/402, while hitting in one of baseball’s best ballparks for hitters.

So that’s what I see. A player in clear offensive decline, with an onerous contract, signed for five more years. Honestly, my belief is that if the Rangers put Young on waivers, the Cardinals would be unwise to claim him and pick up the whole contract. Never mind giving up talent for the privilege. If the Rangers picked up a large portion of the deal, the equation changes. But that’s very difficult to envision.

What do you see?

-M, narrowing down his best-of-08 music list.

19 Comments

I thought about this briefly when I heard he wanted out of Arlington, but I have to say, I don’t see any reason to do it. Where would he play? I guess they would move him back to 2B, where he has played about one-third of his games, but he’s been at SS for the past five seasons (Speaking of which, didn’t we just get a guy by the name of Khalil Greene to play SS, and let Miles go so that Kennedy would play 2B?).

Why would we want a $16M/year contract on a guy to play 2B, when his OBP and AVG were just a touch above Kennedy’s, and his SLG beat out Aaron Miles by 4 points? The only advantage of Young over a free agent that’s out there right now, like, say, Orlando Hudson, is that he was healthier last season and put up a few better numbers in the extra 50 games. It makes no sense.

Young wants out of Texas because they want to move him to third base and he says no. So why would he come to St. Louis and agree to play second base. This also shows me he is not a team player by not wanting to change positions to help the team.
Heck, even A-Rod moved from short to third to help the Yankees!
And Greene is younger and a heck of a lot cheaper than Young.
Makes no sense to me. Cards could not afford him and then still be able to fill the closer position and the last spot in the rotation.
Cards need pitching!!!!!!!

I agree with you whole-heartedly on this one, Matthew. I wouldn’t take Michael Young if Texas were willing to give him away for nothing (unless they would eat most of his contract as well).

Facts:
– Young doesn’t hit nearly as well outside Arlington.
– Young is past his prime.
– Young’s contract is absurd.

The Cards will be much better off with Greene and even Kennedy, given the cripling effect that contract would yield.

The article that I read from the Star-Telegram mentioned Freese and Craig as targets (but did mention Wallace as a starting place). I am in favor of Young if he is willing to move to 2b and if the price is right in prospects and what Texas will kick in. Personally, I would wait on the whole thing. Let the spring approach. Maybe this will get ugly and we can get the deal done at the price we like.
As far as the salary goes… we aren’t spending it on free agents (still rather have Hudson if we are looking at if help). If we have the room, let’s do it. The next few years look pretty good with salary. Rasmus and Wallace should both be important parts of the club and will be cheap for the next few years. So will Perez, Motte and McClennan.
There is however no way I would trade any of the mentioned prospects. I have watched us trade away our youth for too long. I do think it is time to use some of our organizational depth (D Jones, J Jay, B Anderson along with Freese and Craig to name a few) to bring in some pitching.

This is a HORRIBLE idea. We are JUST starting to have talent at the AAA level and must NOT go giving it away to people who are looking to dump horrible contracts! We will be fine with a 2b parking lot and we have a great longer-term plan at 3b and will develop one at 2b. For Yunel Escobar, maybe a good prospect, but for Michael Young?!? Are we really that blind? Please, please tell me no.

For anyone that is actually worried the Cardinals would ever trade for Michael Young..let me have you focus on one number “16” that is the amount in millions that he makes..What have the Cardinals spent on Free Agents so far this year?? There isn’t a Chance in H E Double Hockey Sticks they are paying premium dollars for ANYONE this year! Not that I would want them to make this trade but trust me when I say you have nothing to worry about with that price tag. I think they have done proven that. I sure hope Carpenter is fine cuz all the pitchers are falling quickly off the market.

M…where did you find out about this “groundswell” among the fan base? I’m not questioning accuracy. I’m just wondering who the fan base is? I hadn’t even heard about this possibility, and it seems that everyone on here is with you in thinking this would be a big bonehead move; me included. If we were going to sign a 2b, I would hope it would be someone who fits in our lineup and is better than our current option.
And slata is right…NO WAY we pay that much money for a guy we don’t really need. Especially when we DO NEED pitching!!

Shaun — that’s why I asked. I got a lot of emails about it. So that’s why I wanted to put it to y’all.

-M.

M, what do you see happening with the outfield if the Birds stand pat? Let’s see, we have Schu, Ankiel, Ludwick, Rasmus, Mather, Barton, Duncan, anyone I forgot? That is a lot of players for three spots. Who do you see as most likely to start, plattoon, and be traded or optioned to Memphis? I know we have not even started spring training, but someone is bound to be good trade bait – or very nervous about playing time. Next, play GM for me. What would you do with the trade bait – what would you prioritize as being necessary … starter, closer, 2B? And, just for fun, any valuable “throw-ins” to add some spice (Anderson, Freese, etc.)?

It is one of those stories that needs a Janet Jackson background groove of the song, “What Have You Done for me Lately?”

He is asked to move for a 20-year old shortstop who has not even played above double-A. You are moving a 5-time All Star for a not even a 1-game savvy rookie?

Young originally moved the first time when A-Rod was traded to New York from second to short and had 5 good All Star years. All he has to do is call former Ranger A-Rod and ask how much harder it is to play the Hot Corner. A-Rod did not light the world on fire his first year at third, even if he was a better defensive SS than that # 2 guy.

I think Young might stay in Arlington until the trade deadline, but hopefully if he does have to play third, he doesn’t do a “Michael being Michael ” deal. It will not go over the same in Texas as in Boston.

Rays Renegade

http//raysrenegade.mlblogs.com

I would look for a LH outfielder to be traded. And because
Duncan is questionable and recovering from an injury, Ankiel probably brings the most in return.
Also, because there are several corner outfielders still available as free agents, but not as many centerfielders.
Throw in a surplus RH reliever, such as Thompson, and maybe Anderson, tho his defensive skills are average at best, and get a starter. Not too many closers availabe. How many teams have a good, surplus, closer to trade?
Keep Ludwick, Sch, Mather, Rasmus, Duncan and Barton and hope Rasmus is ready.
I think Duncan’s best trade value is to the AL as a DH.
Mather may have some trade value as an OF, 3B, 1B.
Don’t trade Freese. He is the 3B of the future, probably in 2010. I look at Wallace as probably a left fielder.

Would I give up B Wallace and 16M x 5 years to get M Young? Hell no, but he’d be a great addition.
Most of the negatives here are overblown. He is a very good teammate according to local media and Rangers players. I’ve never met him, but have heard a few stories from friends here in Dallas that he is a great guy.
His resentment toward Ranger mgmt is understandable. He just won a GG at SS. He has been accomodating all along including his move to SS from 2nd (to placate a real POS, who’s thankfully now playing for the cubs).
He played through multiple finger injuries last year, which partially explains his numbers drop. He’d be the best 2B in STL in quite some time, and he’d quickly become a fan favorite. If K Greene is much at all, we’d have by far the best infield in baseball. He just doesn’t deserve anything near Pujols money. Of course, Pujols deserves 2X Pujols money.

I don’t see why this would be a problem, other than salary. He could go back to 2nd base – and he’d be better than Kennedy! I still don’t understand the idea of starting Kennedy at 2nd when the team knows that he hasn’t played well.

I see, M. I was only asking because I hadn’t heard about this at all. I am kinda out of the loop, being in Northwest Arkansas, but I try to keep up through the web.To Paul and Joeld, I think most of us on here are mostly concerned about what it would cost for Michael Young, not whether he’s produce. BUT…having said that I’d also point out that Mike Young’s injuries could very easily linger for the rest of his career. And to give a guy that age, who is on the decline, 16 million AND lose some of our prospects is just not smart. MAYBE if he took a 50% paycut and only wanted a two-year deal I could see it. But at this point in his career, he’s just not worth that much money. Never was if you ask me. But then again NONE of these guys are worth what they get paid.

No argument out of me, Michael Young is the new Alfonso Soriano. No thanks. Ever.

To trade for Michael Young and give him 16 mil a year just flat out isn’t smart, if the Rangers will eat most of that contract then by all means you look into it. Our “aggressive” group of ownership and management that was excited because so much money was “coming off the books” has proven to us 2 things. 1. They won’t spend that type of money and 2. Those comments have resigned Kyle Lohse a releiver good for 1-2 batters and a shortstop who just had the worst year of his career…Oh wait we got ROYCE RING TOO?? REALLY MO?? I don’t know what the plan of this organization is, or if they actually have one. But its obvious we have glaring holes in our pitching staff and an abundance of Outfielders with a Top Prospect who is untouchable and nowhere to put him. I don’t understand at all why TLR is frustrated…or the majority of the best fans in baseball for that matter!!! FA’s are falling off the Hot Stove left and right so I sure hope that MO has some plan because this rotation hoping Carpenter is his Cy Young self and not his 5 start self is Scary, Letting Rookies or young guys close is Scary..Remember the amount of Blown Saves last year, and letting a 2nd basemen that requested a trade, they tried to trade, and no one wanted him so now he is our STARTER doesn’t make sense. I Love the Cardinals and look forward to the start of baseball every year but I must say I’m scared about this season!

Forget about Young. I agree with the boys( & girls), over at Viva El Birdos, who have started an informal petition to sign BEN SHEETS, in hopes that Mo will read it. I agree. Why has there been no reported interest for BEN SHEETS yet? He’s an injury risk, but hasn’t had anything major. Even if he only pitches 1/2 the season, 1/2 a BEN SHEETS season + a replacement level pitcher is still better than a whole season of a replacement level pitcher. Couldn’t hurt to offer him a 2Y/30M contract with incentives and a vesting 3rd year…could it?

There isn’t a pitcher on the market left with the stuff of Ben Sheets…IF he passes a physical I would love to see him with a cardinal uniform on..If he doesn’t then you don’t waste the money because he is an obvious injury “risk” But because of his talent he will be very expensive..12 mil + for sure. Those are two reasons that there isn’t a chance you will see him on the cards no matter how many petitions are signed…What do you think Mo and his bosses care about more…What the fans would love to see, or how much money they can continue to sit on while giving us the same lame excuses…I pick the latter.

I say no to Michael Young. He’s not the team first guy he claims he is. I know he won the AL Gold Glove at SS, but his defense is over rated. Him moving to 3rd base would have helped the Rangers out, and he said no, sound like a team first guy to you?

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